Tories defend use of Kijiji data in face of opposition ridicule

Anyone else see the pattern? Don't like real data on Canadians? Eliminate the long form survey from Stats Can. Don't like pesky environmental data? Defund science. Need an excuse to justify allowing cheap labour into the country?
Use identity theft disguised as fake job ads to make up your statistics!

Awesome.



No, it ain't easy. Too bad you got rid of all the public servants who did it for you, because apparently the new "just make shit up" policy is backfiring.

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Well, if the Lieberal media would just lay off, it would be all good. The Cons could get busy fighting unreported crime and basing their economic responses on the truthiness of what they know is right instead of pesky facts and stuff. Good, taxpaying consumers demand it.

That bike is likely to have been stolen.

This is nothing new, is it? I remember hearing this issue of governments buying information from private databases discussed years ago. I just took for granted it happens everywhere now.

Don't like a government? Provide half the information and paint the wrong picture.

Just for the record, how many other aspects of government spending had reductions in the same period of time?

Is dishonesty something you learned while picking up your Doctorate or is that just part of your character?

Don't like a government? Provide half the information and paint the wrong picture.

Just for the record, how many other aspects of government spending had reductions in the same period of time?

Is dishonesty something you learned while picking up your Doctorate or is that just part of your character?

Just for the record, how many of those defunded programs provide unbiased information on how to plan for the future of our country?

Keep up the good work!
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So in other words, 100% correct, many government institutions had budgets reduced, but this one set of funding was special and shouldn't have been cut.

Oh look a picture to try and hide my dishonesty.
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And because unlike you I will answer question with actual answers; I'm not sure how many other programs got funding cuts. However, I believe the government also changed an aspect of the laws around the census, to include a form that was a lot less intrusive, which would be reasonable to argue would limit the ability to make projections.

Although I'm not sure that had anything to do with a budge cut.
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Last point, very little to do with climate science is free of bias or motivation. But that is an argument we have already had, and will likely have again.

So in other words, 100% correct, many government institutions had budgets reduced, but this one set of funding was special and shouldn't have been cut.

I never said other things haven't been cut. But this government has a very blatant track record of defunding thing that conflict with their political ideology. Defunding things like environmental studies are extremely short sighted, because they provide the government with information on how to plan for the future. Basing their employment policy on Kijiji adverts instead of StatsCan data only shows their preference to let in cheap labour to undercut Canadians in order to fill a need that isn't there.



I know it's one of your debate tactics to troll and try to make people angry. Have you ever once tried to say what they are being dishonest about? I guess that would be dishonest, now wouldn't it?

I'm quite proud of my 'Most Zen' medal. Appeals to Emotion don't affect me.



Wait - you don't know the answer to the question? Why ask it? Whereas, I know exactly what cuts this government has made to science programs. Here are a few of the hundreds of cuts:

Environmental Emergency Response Program
Smokestacks Emissions Monitoring Team
Hazardous Materials Information Review Commission
Municipal Water and Wastewater Survey
Environmental Protection Operation
Action Plan on Clean Water
DFO Marine Science Libraries
St. Johns Marine Traffic Centre
St. Anthony�s Marine Traffic Centre
Oil Spill Counter-Measures Team
Sustainable Development Technology Canada � Next Generation Biofuels Fund
RADARSAT Constellation Mission
World Ozone and Ultraviolet Radiation Data Centre
http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/blog/federal-pr ... -or-had-th

Considering the push towards more oil and gas development and a pipeline to the west coast, and sustainable use of the oceans - do any of those cuts seem like prudent decisions? If there is a big push by the Conservatives to get bitumen into tankers and ship it to Asia, how much sense does it make to cut the people who monitor tanker traffic and the west coast Coast Guard?

As with this article, the Conservatives are playing fast and loose with the future of Canadians and it will end up costing us far more in the future than the cost savings right now.



At least we agree there. Anyone who knows statistics knows that 'voluntary' data is the least accurate.



No, it goes to their pattern of ignoring science because it conflicts with ideology.



Who mentioned climate science? And no, we won't have it again. You've pretty much used up all the goodwill I had for you by constantly calling me a liar.

As well as defunding things that have nothing to do with their political ideology, or are actively part of it. That's the part you won't admit.

So this special programme is too important to have a budget cut.

I'm sure people in every field that had a government funding cut would say the same thing.

The value of the environmental studies is also in all fairness up for interpretation.


I thought I was about as clear as possible.

"Don't like a government? Provide half the information and paint the wrong picture.
Just for the record, how many other aspects of government spending had reductions in the same period of time."

You are being dishonest by omitting the fact that other government funded programmes got funding cuts at the very same time, in a government wide effort to cut costs.

That's about as clear as it gets. Unless this is just another attempt to mislead on your part, but making a statement that would mislead people into thinking I don't outline what I think someone is being dishonest about.

Well I know you are a full out liar, given what you said when we were talking about GMOs. Something like their have never been human trials on this GMO. I link a study of the human trials and then you change your tune to, well the study showed the GMO was safe and successful but not a perfect cure for the problem.

That's nice. If I was trolling someone that's not an appeal to emotion. An appeal to emotion would be, 'what if it happened to your family' or 'it's a bunch of children how can you say that?'.

Let me be clear, I'm not trolling you, trolling is a art. I'm flat out calling you dishonest and a liar, nothing subtle or artful about that.
I asked for all programs at the time, not just science focused ones, I also knew the answer was many, although I wouldn't be able to give you a full list. As such the only honest answer for me, is I don't know.
Yes, because somehow life goes on. The fiscal reality is that Canada doesn't have an unlimited amount of money to fund every project people would like to have. Your attempt to established science funding as untouchable because it's science, is not immoral, but it's also not realistic.

When the first tanker is inbound ask that question again. Till then why should we be paying for a service (monitoring tanker traffic for the northern gate way project) that currently has no function?

Maybe what we need is a better look at what the funding cut to the coast guard did. IIRC one of the cuts forced the closure of a Coast Guard Station that was less than 15min travel time from another CGS which was getting an upgrade to better serve the area, and overall cutting costs. People made the exact same argument about how this station was too important to cut, just like your science funding.
An interesting opinion. Is their no private science in Canada offering sagely advice to private corporations or NGO on how things are going to change and how to best take advantage of that?

If I had to pin it down it's about the freedom from the government using the force of law to collect information on the citizens. Getting fined or put in jail because you won't tell the government your private information is very upsetting to many people.

I believe the census still sends out the long form but now it's a request to fill it out if you want, rather than a legal command backed by the force of law.


I guess I did called you a liar again, oh well.

Anyway, you mentioned climate science.
"Don't like pesky environmental data? Defund science."
I will be fair, I did jump to a conclusion that environmental data would include in part some climate science.

However I think it is reasonable to link climate science to environmental sciences.

If you believe that climate science hasn't had it's funding touched, I will withdraw that statement and offer an apology.

It's not just the cutting of programs, but also the re-writing of environemtnal legislation, the muzzling of scientists and the destruction of decades of records. Sure you can argue that times are tyough and everyone gets cut. but it's gone much further than that.

Reminds me of the time when the Bush Admin submitted a budget on a laptop. As a publicity stunt it was a total disaster. Everyone pretty much knew that there wasn't a single page of the federal budget on the computer because the entire memory was full of nothing but LOLcats.

Really? I'm lying because I didn't mention something. Hmmmm. You keep using the word 'lying'. I don't think it means what you think it means. You might want to look that one up. A refresher course on logical debate might be in order too.

And no, Environmental Sciences and Climate Sciences are not the same thing.

As Zip says and as I was saying, it's much larger pattern of the Conservatives motives that is reflected in their insistence that employment and immigration policy are based on the number of attempted identity thefts on Kajiji.