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CERN (LHC) scientists 'break the speed of light

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CERN (LHC) scientists 'break the speed of light'


Science | 207832 hits | Sep 22 1:08 pm | Posted by: DrCaleb
21 Comment

If confirmed, the discovery would undermine Albert Einstein's 1905 theory of special relativity, which says that the speed of light is a "cosmic constant" and that nothing in the universe can travel faster. That assertion, which has withstood over a c

Comments

  1. by avatar Guy_Fawkes
    Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:58 pm
    That's amazing! I hope they can confirm this!

  2. by Anonymous
    Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:15 pm
    That is amazing. I guess that proves that nothing is really impossible.

  3. by avatar DrCaleb
    Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:24 pm
    "Guy_Fawkes" said
    That's amazing! I hope they can confirm this!


    It would be, but there are still things to be considered. Like, the speed of light might not be what we thought it was (not likely). Or an error in the placement of the detectors. (18m over 700km, again not likely).

    But if correct, now they have re-write the standard model of physics. :) Very cool!

  4. by jeff744
    Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:40 pm
    "DrCaleb" said
    That's amazing! I hope they can confirm this!


    It would be, but there are still things to be considered. Like, the speed of light might not be what we thought it was (not likely). Or an error in the placement of the detectors. (18m over 700km, again not likely).

    But if correct, now they have re-write the standard model of physics. :) Very cool!
    We seem to be doing that a lot lately.

  5. by avatar Gunnair  Gold Member
    Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:41 pm
    Oh... wow! 8O

  6. by avatar raydan
    Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:29 pm
    So why didn't these neutrinos collapse into black holes?
    Where's Einstein when we need him?

    Personaly, I've always had problems with limits, especially this "nothing can travel faster than the speed of light" limit. Now, let's tackle absolute zero and that maximum temperature (Planck) thing.

  7. by avatar DanSC
    Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:43 pm
    Great. Now I have to go back to university and learn physics again.

  8. by avatar xerxes
    Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:44 pm
    Very cool!

  9. by avatar ShepherdsDog
    Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:55 pm
    two things...A.) 'ENGAGE!' and B.) 'The dilithium crystals canna take anymore!'

  10. by avatar PublicAnimalNo9
    Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:07 am
    And this is why I always laugh when some shmuck says things like, "The science is settled".

    This is pretty cool news indeed.

  11. by eureka
    Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:17 am
    Incredible claims need incredible evidence. The ramifications of this, if it turns out to be accurate are almost unthinkable.

    The evidence is pretty scanty yet.

  12. by avatar DrCaleb
    Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:10 pm
    "eureka" said

    The evidence is pretty scanty yet.


    15,000 nutrinos fired, most of them were 'early'. That's not insignificant statistically, and in many fields more than enough to count as 'verified'. But we'll see how this turns out!

    Almost as much fun as in the 70's and 80's when some graduate student would find another new Quark, every other day it seemed.

  13. by avatar DrCaleb
    Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:16 pm
    Bit of an update - one of the leading theories is that the 'gravity' portion of Special Relativity might play a part in this.

    So, it might be true, but still within current theories.

    The OPERA team timed the neutrinos using clocks at each location that were synchronized using GPS (Global Positioning System) signals from a single satellite. Contaldi's paper says the group's calculations do not take into account one aspect of Albert Einstein's general theory of relativity: that slight differences in the force of gravity at the two sites would cause the clocks to tick at different rates.

    Because the CERN site lies closer to the centre of the Earth than Gran Sasso, and consequently feels a smaller gravitational pull, a clock at the beginning of the neutrinos' journey would actually run at a slightly slower rate to the clock at the end. "It would reduce the significance of the result," Contaldi says.



    Because two clocks are needed to time the neutrinos' journey � one at the beginning, and one at the end � they must be synchronized to within nanoseconds to get an accurate measurement, explains Toby Wiseman, a theoretical physicist also at Imperial College London. Measuring the speed of light on this journey would be much easier, because the beam can be reflected back to its origin, and the round trip timed with just one clock. "Whether they have or haven't synchronized their clocks correctly is the crucial question," says Wiseman.

    Contaldi admits that his original analysis posted at ArXiv wrongly assumed that OPERA's timings relied on a clock being moved from one end of the beam to the other. But even synchronizing the clocks using GPS does not remove the difference in the time dilation effect, which Contaldi says could amount to tens of nanoseconds.

    That effect would reduce the statistical significance � which OPERA claimed was six standard deviations � of the group's result (five is enough to count as strong evidence in the field of particle physics). Contaldi says the additional error would reduce that number to two or three standard deviations, enough to make only a tentative claim of a faster-than-light effect.



    http://www.nature.com/news/2011/111005/ ... 1.575.html

  14. by avatar Freakinoldguy
    Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:54 pm
    Amazing.

    But now that they broke it, lets see how good they really are by fixing it. :D

    Whens the first flight to the next galaxy?



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