 More than half of federal government scientists still feel muzzled, poll finds More than two years after the election of a federal government that says it wants scientists to speak freely, more than half of federal scientists responding to a new poll say they still don�t feel they can.Commentsview comments in forum Page 1 You need to be a member of CKA and be logged into the site, to comment on news. |
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The only thing that bothers me about this latest finding is that under Harper they were all muzzled which means that Trudeau is allowing "certain" scientists the right to publish their findings and or opinions based on agreeing with his.
Friends of mine who were active duty CF in the sandbox said they couldn't take a shit without authorization from Ottawa...let alone pulling a trigger.
Meanwhile I'm out in Bumfuqistan making pink mist and nobody in DC even cared if I existed. Just zot the target is all they cared about. How and when was up to me.
Totally different mindset.
No offense, but seems to me that you folks like it this way.
"More than half of federal government scientists are completely fucking useless.
Feeling the same pinch that all other useless employees eventually feel, they cry out for public sympathy and support by appealing to the public's desire for science fiction and creative fantasy."
In other news:
"More than half of federal government scientists are completely fucking useless.
Feeling the same pinch that all other useless employees eventually feel, they cry out for public sympathy and support by appealing to the public's desire for science fiction and creative fantasy."
�Yeah science never dun nuthin 4 nobody �
Another quality post by the resident troll.
I'll say it again. If you don't like the terms of service your employer asks. Find another job and that statement is true for both the Conservatives under Stephan Harper or the Liberals under Justin Trudeau.
The only thing that bothers me about this latest finding is that under Harper they were all muzzled which means that Trudeau is allowing "certain" scientists the right to publish their findings and or opinions based on agreeing with his.
This isn�t about whether the employees like it or not, this is about government officials trying to censor inconvenient facts and keep the information from the public.
The report also makes clear that the censorship is primarily coming from managers who are stuck in the old ways not from Justin.
I'll say it again. If you don't like the terms of service your employer asks. Find another job and that statement is true for both the Conservatives under Stephan Harper or the Liberals under Justin Trudeau.
The only thing that bothers me about this latest finding is that under Harper they were all muzzled which means that Trudeau is allowing "certain" scientists the right to publish their findings and or opinions based on agreeing with his.
This isn�t about whether the employees like it or not, this is about government officials trying to censor inconvenient facts and keep the information from the public.
The report also makes clear that the censorship is primarily coming from managers who are stuck in the old ways not from Justin.
So, your saying the Managers who I believe are fellow scientists followed Harper's orders to the letter while Trudeau's were ignored?
�Under the previous government, we saw a climate of fear where some government scientists were not allowed to talk to journalists about their research results,� says Rachael Jolley, editor of Index on Censorship magazine. �We hope that the new government will be more committed to making sure its citizens are fully informed about science and research.�
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn ... cientists/
If this is true it seems to me there's a leadership problem in Ottawa. Well that and the fact that I'd find any poll that was conducted by the very union that represents the complainants a little suspect.
But I'll say it again. Working for the Gov't shouldn't be considered a god given right and it's employees shouldn't think they have the right to release information with or without their employers approval.
So, if these scientists don't agree with their terms of service implemented by their superiors it's time for them to quit and find another job. Besides, they should be speaking directly to the PM who made the promise to take the muzzle off and not sneaking around participating in polls that are conducted by a biased source. Unless of course they've gone this route and aren't happy with the result.
But I'll say it again. Working for the Gov't shouldn't be considered a god given right and it's employees shouldn't think they have the right to release information with or without their employers approval.
So, if these scientists don't agree with their terms of service implemented by their superiors it's time for them to quit and find another job. Besides, they should be speaking directly to the PM who made the promise to take the muzzle off and not sneaking around participating in polls that are conducted by a biased source. Unless of course they've gone this route and aren't happy with the result.
"If I have seen further than others, it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants." - Isaac Newton
Science, since it's inception, was meant to be shared. Science funded on the public dollar, doubly so.
Don't go confusing publicly funded research with privately funded. The Government of Canada is under obligation to share a great many things with the citizens because we pay the bills.
But I'll say it again. Working for the Gov't shouldn't be considered a god given right and it's employees shouldn't think they have the right to release information with or without their employers approval.
So, if these scientists don't agree with their terms of service implemented by their superiors it's time for them to quit and find another job. Besides, they should be speaking directly to the PM who made the promise to take the muzzle off and not sneaking around participating in polls that are conducted by a biased source. Unless of course they've gone this route and aren't happy with the result.
Don't go confusing publicly funded research with privately funded. The Government of Canada is under obligation to share a great many things with the citizens because we pay the bills.
I'm not but, why should publicly funded Gov't scientists be any different than say, the PMO's Office, Parliament, The Senate, CSIS, the Military, the RCMP or any of the other myriad of gov't divisions we pay for?
There are alot of things that are classified in the Gov't including scientific studies and giving the scientist carte blanche to release what they want may create security issues that you and I haven't even thought of.
It would appear that while the muzzling of "some" scientists has gotten better the muzzling of everyone else has gotten worse, alot worse.
Since December, the Privy Council Office has designated at least 94 individuals, some of whom no longer work for the federal government, as "persons permanently bound to secrecy" or PPBS � a binding legal order intended to enforce their silence.
The group all had access to confidential, security-related information while working at the Privy Council Office or the Prime Minister's Office, and some were served with official notice of the gag order after they had left their jobs.
Each of them was individually identified by their boss or former boss as knowing secrets about national security, and therefore requiring a gag order that is retroactive � preventing them from talking about their work before the gag order was issued.
Each was also presented with a three-page notice to sign and return, many using a pre-paid, pre-addressed envelope that was enclosed.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/privy-c ... -1.4139309
So do you think given the scope of the Gov'ts muzzling order that the scientists should be the only branch of Gov't with no restrictions what so ever on what they publish or say and for the record I having lived through it still stand by my "don't like the rules find another job" statement.
I'm not but, why should publicly funded Gov't scientists be any different than say, the PMO's Office, Parliament, The Senate, CSIS, the Military, the RCMP or any of the other myriad of gov't divisions we pay for?
There are alot of things that are classified in the Gov't including scientific studies and giving the scientist carte blanche to release what they want may create security issues that you and I haven't even thought of.
'Science' is not classified. By definition and tradition, 'science' has always been shared widely, because that is the only way to see if it is done objectively. Everything done by Statistics Canada is by definition 'science' and also publicly accessible. Counts of fish stocks, or research into geology is no different.
Don't go confusing the secret projects the government does as 'science'. I, and the article, are talking about the pure research things that only governments do, because business sees no profit in pure science. But they do reap the benefits of it.
Science is about , and without sharing data and methods Scientists can't be questioned nor can science progress.
It would appear that while the muzzling of "some" scientists has gotten better the muzzling of everyone else has gotten worse, alot worse.
So do you think given the scope of the Gov'ts muzzling order that the scientists should be the only branch of Gov't with no restrictions what so ever on what they publish or say and for the record I having lived through it still stand by my "don't like the rules find another job" statement.
". . .should they spill any secrets". Again, you are confusing 'science' and 'secrets'. Science is open, secrets by their nature are not.
These articles are US based, but they still ring true in Canada:
https://www.theodysseyonline.com/reason ... -important
http://www.businessinsider.com/basic-re ... ghs-2015-7
https://sciexaminer.com/news/science/sc ... -4023.html
It's what many Canadian Scientists feel they cannot do.
But I'll say it again. Working for the Gov't shouldn't be considered a god given right and it's employees shouldn't think they have the right to release information with or without their employers approval.
So, if these scientists don't agree with their terms of service implemented by their superiors it's time for them to quit and find another job. Besides, they should be speaking directly to the PM who made the promise to take the muzzle off and not sneaking around participating in polls that are conducted by a biased source. Unless of course they've gone this route and aren't happy with the result.
"If I have seen further than others, it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants." - Isaac Newton
Science, since it's inception, was meant to be shared. Science funded on the public dollar, doubly so.
Don't go confusing publicly funded research with privately funded. The Government of Canada is under obligation to share a great many things with the citizens because we pay the bills.
AND lets have more, much more of that publicly funded research!