[Newsbot]

Title: Violence erupts as general strike shuts down Greece
Category: World
Posted By: Strutz
Date: 2011-10-19 20:29:08

[martin14]

This won't help the tourism industry.

Well done unions.. yay

And remember, these measures aren't going to fix their problems, but only to slow them down.

[jeff744]

Is it possible for us to eject the residents of a European nation and just start anew?

[ShepherdsDog]

The Greeks would sooner fight to the bitter end, rather than accept a northern European work ethic

[jeff744]

We'll just ship them all the Crete. Give Greece to people that are actually willing to work for a living instead of trying to bring down all Europe around them.

[Prof_Chomsky]

I’m far from an expert on international affairs or banking practices, but everyone here seems to be missing the root of the problem. It’s not that Greeks didn’t’ have a work ethic, or that they want more social programs than they pay for…

Their government followed their own strict laws and invested hundreds of billions of public money in the only place they were legally allowed to, AAA graded guaranteed securities WITH insurance in the “1 in a million” shot they actually failed (AIG ring a bell?). They chose GUARANTEED investments with low yields over risky ones with higher yields… and the banks literally defrauded them by KNOWINGLY selling them garbage investments, then defaulting on the insurance because they were bankrupt.

Now these very same banks are the ones that want all that money back from the country they defrauded, and to “help” them through it, they continually raise their interest rates to levels usually only seen in 3rd world nations making the payback of that money near impossible.

The only fair course action in this situation if you ask me is Greece should be sending in their army to nationalize those very same banks and get their money back. Problem solved. Oh wait, that doesn’t work any more because banks are international… Gee, nice little loop hole.

I hope the Greek workers stay on strike until their government has no choice but to cancel the austerity measures and begin nationalizing the thieves that bankrupted them in the first place.

[DrCaleb]

Prof_Chomsky Prof_Chomsky:

I’m far from an expert on international affairs or banking practices, but everyone here seems to be missing the root of the problem. It’s not that Greeks didn’t’ have a work ethic, or that they want more social programs than they pay for… . . .

Very informative!

[commanderkai]

Prof_Chomsky Prof_Chomsky:

I’m far from an expert on international affairs or banking practices, but everyone here seems to be missing the root of the problem. It’s not that Greeks didn’t’ have a work ethic, or that they want more social programs than they pay for…

Actually, those are two key roots of the problem. Bad investments are a third, no doubt, but to say that overspending, and a bloated public sector weren't also key problems is wrong.

$1:

The only fair course action in this situation if you ask me is Greece should be sending in their army to nationalize those very same banks and get their money back. Problem solved. Oh wait, that doesn’t work any more because banks are international… Gee, nice little loop hole.

I hope the Greek workers stay on strike until their government has no choice but to cancel the austerity measures and begin nationalizing the thieves that bankrupted them in the first place.

Ah, I see. This will get them the money to pay their massive debt levels, and continuing obligations to public sector employees...how? Oh right, it won't, so then the country of Greece will be bankrupt, unstable, and have very little foreign capital being invested. Brilliant plan. What's next?

[BartSimpson]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/ ... FI20111020

Excerpt: Go to the link for the full article and video.

$1:

(Reuters) - Tens of thousands of protesters rallied on Thursday in front of the Greek parliament, where clashes broke out between rival groups demonstrating ahead of a vote on a new round of austerity measures.

The rally, which drew 70,000 people, was interrupted by fighting between groups of black-clad youths and rivals from PAME, a communist-affiliated labor group, which opposed the disruption of the protest.

Police initially stood by but eventually moved in to confront rioters, firing tear gas at groups of protesters throwing rocks and masonry chipped off nearby buildings. At least 74 people were taken to hospital with injuries.

One man died of a heart attack on the fringes of the protest but officials said he had not been hurt in the incidents.

The clashes in front of parliament followed violence on Wednesday when groups of youths fought police at the start of a 48-hour general strike against the package of cuts and tax hikes demanded by the European Union and International Monetary Fund.

I find it kind of funny that a mob of leftists are protesting a tax increase. Obviously, this is the work of the Greek chapter of the Tea Party.

[Prof_Chomsky]

Commanderkai - You're argument seems to be that "people can always work harder for less money" and it just doesn't hold water. Their system worked for decades until they were defrauded. It was stable.

Problem is, the system is now rigged internationally. The very same banks that blackmailed a trillion dollars from the US government, (and 13-17 trillion more and counting on the backend in the form of debt redistribution and write offs) are bankrupting Greece, and now also working on Italy, France, Spain... and because no one country can just say “Ok, that’s enough you lied and stole from us so the debt is nullified and you are now owned by us” the crisis continues.

I don’t think anyone on this forum would disagree the banks defrauded the world for trillions of dollars. I also don’t think anyone believes they should get away with it, let alone get bailed out by blue collar workers like they already have… All I’m saying is if you want to fix this issue the western countries simply need to meet at the next G20 summit and say “Time to split up the banks and take back what they stole”. Instead of rioting and strikes you would see global ticker tape parades.

[Psudo]

Sounds like anarchists vs. communists. Yeah, we never get that here.

[BartSimpson]

Roe Roe:

So why aren't you joining them?

Because it's a bunch of spoiled children who are throwing a massive tantrum. They've been living beyond their means and now their parents (The IMF) is cutting up their credit cards and making them pay their bills.

I expect the same thing will eventually happen in the USA and we'll see urban centres light up with riots once the welfare cheques stop being issued.

Edit: I asked the mods to merge this topic with the original by Strutz.

[andyt]

commanderkai commanderkai:

Prof_Chomsky Prof_Chomsky:

I’m far from an expert on international affairs or banking practices, but everyone here seems to be missing the root of the problem. It’s not that Greeks didn’t’ have a work ethic, or that they want more social programs than they pay for…

Actually, those are two key roots of the problem. Bad investments are a third, no doubt, but to say that overspending, and a bloated public sector weren't also key problems is wrong.

Very true. And that Goldman Sachs colluded with the Greek govt to hide those debts so they would be admitted to the EU. Germany also has strong social spending and unions, but they don't face what the greeks are because they actually pay their taxes.

commanderkai commanderkai:

Prof_Chomsky Prof_Chomsky:

The only fair course action in this situation if you ask me is Greece should be sending in their army to nationalize those very same banks and get their money back. Problem solved. Oh wait, that doesn’t work any more because banks are international… Gee, nice little loop hole.

I hope the Greek workers stay on strike until their government has no choice but to cancel the austerity measures and begin nationalizing the thieves that bankrupted them in the first place.

Ah, I see. This will get them the money to pay their massive debt levels, and continuing obligations to public sector employees...how? Oh right, it won't, so then the country of Greece will be bankrupt, unstable, and have very little foreign capital being invested. Brilliant plan. What's next?

How is that different than the situation now? Time for investors to take a haircut and for Greeks to actually pay their taxes and the civil service to be rationalized and pensionable age to be increased to at least what it is in Germany. If Greece wasn't in the Euro zone, it would have defaulted long ago, like Argentina did, like the US has done, and be working it's way back to better financial health.

[commanderkai]

Prof_Chomsky Prof_Chomsky:

Commanderkai - You're argument seems to be that "people can always work harder for less money" and it just doesn't hold water. Their system worked for decades until they were defrauded. It was stable.

How was it stable? It was continually spending more than it made through taxes or other revenues. That's a recipe for economic disaster. The fact that banks (and, basically, richer countries) have become unwilling to loan out more and more money for something that they see is an impending economic disaster is not the fault of the bank.

$1:

I don’t think anyone on this forum would disagree the banks defrauded the world for trillions of dollars. I also don’t think anyone believes they should get away with it, let alone get bailed out by blue collar workers like they already have… All I’m saying is if you want to fix this issue the western countries simply need to meet at the next G20 summit and say “Time to split up the banks and take back what they stole”. Instead of rioting and strikes you would see global ticker tape parades.

Oh that's a brilliant idea. Yeah, and then you can enjoy the sight of every single person and business trying to get every damn penny out of their accounts as governments attempt to steal their money in order to "reclaim what was stolen". No doubt there was SOME corruption, but tarring and feathering every single bank, let alone seizing the assets of various banking institutions is probably one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard. Why not just set off EMPs over the world's major cities, you'd have about the same level of economic collapse.

[martin14]

Prof_Chomsky Prof_Chomsky:

I’m far from an expert on international affairs or banking practices,

you should have stopped right there.......




Which banks filed for bankruptcy ?



This is a 40 year old problem, from the most bloated public service sector in Europe..
10 million people, 1 million public servants..

Finance problems caused the Greeks' inability to pay their own bond issues
that their own government issued years and years ago.

Currency problems created when they flat out falsified information in order
to join the Euro, a currency they should never have been granted in the first place.

2 million illegal immigrants who pay nothing and get free everything.


The Greeks actually produce very little, and are the masters of stealing
everything... including being the biggest tax cheats in Europe.


Now a country like Slovakia has to kick in and bail the Greeks out of their
own financial stupidity.


Explain why a country who gives their retired a pension of 400 euros and retirement age of 62 should
be bailing out a country where the pension is 1,400, with a retirement age of 55...