[poquas]

Why can’t we buy a decent outboard for our Canadian rowboat and rename it the Mulroney. Brian could invite George here when we sink it by breaking a bottle of Molson over the bow!

[QBall]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

I think the realities of the 21st century will eventually require Canada to buck up and have at least one carrier in each ocean. The 21st century is not going to be about Canada playing Cold War brinksmanship, but about Canada protecting her increasingly valuable mineral and natural resources - especially her fisheries.

One carrier in each ocean is a complete waste. Between repairs, scheduled maintenance and training the ship would see precious little operational time. Unless you're prepared to have three on each coast it's not going to work.

[DrCaleb]

QBall QBall:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

I think the realities of the 21st century will eventually require Canada to buck up and have at least one carrier in each ocean. The 21st century is not going to be about Canada playing Cold War brinksmanship, but about Canada protecting her increasingly valuable mineral and natural resources - especially her fisheries.

One carrier in each ocean is a complete waste. Between repairs, scheduled maintenance and training the ship would see precious little operational time. Unless you're prepared to have three on each coast it's not going to work.

Sounds like an excellent economic stimulus package to me.

[martin14]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

QBall QBall:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

I think the realities of the 21st century will eventually require Canada to buck up and have at least one carrier in each ocean. The 21st century is not going to be about Canada playing Cold War brinksmanship, but about Canada protecting her increasingly valuable mineral and natural resources - especially her fisheries.

One carrier in each ocean is a complete waste. Between repairs, scheduled maintenance and training the ship would see precious little operational time. Unless you're prepared to have three on each coast it's not going to work.

Sounds like an excellent economic stimulus package to me.

would be, I'm not sure Candian yards have the capability
to build carriers though.

an STOL, maybe, throw in some ice-breaking capability...

[EyeBrock]

We can't even get our Hornet's out to Afghanistan to give our own troops air support.
But I'm sure the approaches to CFB Bagotville are well covered.

[uwish]

Mr_Canada Mr_Canada:

Having to listen to you pathetic right wingers constantly minimize every problem you people have caused this country does makes me want to drink.

But no, I'm not drunk.

right wingers causing problems?

in the last 100 years, 75 of them have been liberal aka left wing. I think that clearly points to who has created the problems.

[uwish]

bootlegga bootlegga:

llama66 llama66:

I wish we had an Aircraft Carrier.

A full fledged aircraft carrier is a luxury we can't afford. China wants to build carriers too, but can't afford them.

Even a STOL carrier costs far too much to build, maintain and operate. There's a reason that only a few nations own real carriers. Once you add in aircraft, escort ships the cost jumps from the two billion for the carrier to five or six billion, with annual operating expenses of $500 million or more for a battle group.

The best idea I've heard here was an ice-breaking helicopter carrier for use in the Arctic as well as off our coasts. Another alternative would be a longer flight deck on our new DDHs, so they could operate armed UAVs to add reach and firepower.

great summary and right on the money

[BartSimpson]

martin14 martin14:

[I'm not sure Candian yards have the capability
to build carriers though.

Then build new yards.

[BartSimpson]

bootlegga bootlegga:

China wants to build carriers too, but can't afford them.

China could afford some $8 to $10 trillion of the US debt. I'm sure they could spare a few paltry billion for some carriers - which is something they have been actively pursuing for several years.

The problem they face is that they lack the knowledge of naval architecture required for modern carriers and then they totally lack the body of knowledge needed to successfully run a carrier air group. They are playing catch-up in a very big way with the US Navy and will have a very long way to go before they have any kind of power with carriers. India is way ahead of them on carriers right now.

But where China is going for now is submarines to try to deny the US our carrier advantage. I guess if they can't have carriers then the fall back position is to try to make sure no one else does.

[EyeBrock]

I would put US ASW as quite the formidable hurdle to any non NATO fleet.

The Chinese are a paper dragon militarily just as they have turned out to be economically.

I think US and UK hunter-killer subs (who are now on their Nth generation) would be quite willing to prove the point in a shooting war, and that's discounting what the USN air assets can do, as well as ASW cruisers and destroyers.

The US has been playing this game a long time and when was the last time the USN lost a war?

Obviously all the rabid anti-Yanks bashers fail to see the nature of US naval superiority. But then they miss a lot of other obvious stuff too, blinded by hatred of our country's best friend and ally.

No streaker that's not hamas, it's our chums from the US.

[martin14]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

martin14 martin14:

[I'm not sure Candian yards have the capability
to build carriers though.

Then build new yards.

.. maybe we could borrow yours ?

Seriously, its all gone now.. my old man warned me about that.
It's why I never went into shipbuilding, although I wanted to.



Saint John.. closed
Davie in Lauzon, Quebec.. closed

Marystown and
Halifax.. too small.

Weller in St. Catherines could, but can't get it out of the Great Lakes.
Good to have a carrier to protect the Lakes though
Collingwood closed long time ago.

Vancouver.. too small


Now Esquimalt should still have a thousand foot graving yard,
but thats it.. and I've seen the yards in Norfolk, the yard is its' own town
of stuff.

That would be a huge huge huge project, and Victoria has neither the
infrastructure nor the experience to put out even a small carrier,
never mind living space for an extra 4-5000 people to come and work.

pfff, even the dippers would have trouble justifying the money
for all the work needed.

[QBall]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

QBall QBall:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

I think the realities of the 21st century will eventually require Canada to buck up and have at least one carrier in each ocean. The 21st century is not going to be about Canada playing Cold War brinksmanship, but about Canada protecting her increasingly valuable mineral and natural resources - especially her fisheries.

One carrier in each ocean is a complete waste. Between repairs, scheduled maintenance and training the ship would see precious little operational time. Unless you're prepared to have three on each coast it's not going to work.

Sounds like an excellent economic stimulus package to me.

And man them with whom? Convicts? We don't have enough personnel to man the ships we have now. 6 small carriers?!? We'd have to recruit Somali pirates to man that many large ships!

[BartSimpson]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

I would put US ASW as quite the formidable hurdle to any non NATO fleet.

The Chinese are a paper dragon militarily just as they have turned out to be economically.

I think US and UK hunter-killer subs (who are now on their Nth generation) would be quite willing to prove the point in a shooting war, and that's discounting what the USN air assets can do, as well as ASW cruisers and destroyers.

The US has been playing this game a long time and when was the last time the USN lost a war?

Oh, I'm not saying the Chinese sub strategy would actually work. Not at all. I'm just saying that their strategy for now seems to be one of area denial since they cannot achieve dominance of their own.

[BartSimpson]

martin14 martin14:

.. maybe we could borrow yours ?

Seriously, its all gone now.. my old man warned me about that.
It's why I never went into shipbuilding, although I wanted to.



Saint John.. closed
Davie in Lauzon, Quebec.. closed

Marystown and
Halifax.. too small.

Weller in St. Catherines could, but can't get it out of the Great Lakes.
Good to have a carrier to protect the Lakes though
Collingwood closed long time ago.

Vancouver.. too small


Now Esquimalt should still have a thousand foot graving yard,
but thats it.. and I've seen the yards in Norfolk, the yard is its' own town
of stuff.

That would be a huge huge huge project, and Victoria has neither the
infrastructure nor the experience to put out even a small carrier,
never mind living space for an extra 4-5000 people to come and work.

pfff, even the dippers would have trouble justifying the money
for all the work needed.

Sad. Canada should have her own shipyards but instead acts like a colony instead of a nation by sending her raw materials to China and Korea and Japan and the USA and then buying back the finished goods.

Canada should have steel yards to process her iron ore and coal into steel and then shipyards to process the steel into ships.

It'd be something to be proud of.

[martin14]

Couldn't agree more Bart, it is a real shame.
Just happy my dad never saw it, even though he knew it was coming.