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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:37 am
 


Title: 'I felt like I was a doll'
Category: Business
Posted By: kitty
Date: 2008-11-13 05:06:38
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:37 am
 


Perhaps the advocates of legalized prostitution could tell us how this would change if prostitution were made legal? I would like to hear why this didn't fall into the glamorous description of high priced escorts that advocates of this lifestyle keep mentioning. Living off the profits of prostitution and human trafficking is already illegal and would remain so but I guess this person slipped through the cracks? I doubt it. I'd expect her story is more the average than the exception.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:49 am
 


Tell me how it being illegal stops this? It doesn't. If it were legal then perhaps she would have went to the police earlier or perhaps they would have some kind of legal group looking after them and protecting them.

Changes nothing though. While many women end up doing this work because it pays better then anything else they could do at present (like legal stripping) still others actually consider it a calling though they are at the high end of the pay scale.

No matter what your opinion about what other people do with their bodies is so irrelevant it cannot be measured. Yet another example of why you are an authoritarian rather then a libertarian.
$1:
Libertarianism is closely related to liberalism, if this word is interpreted according to its original meaning of classical liberalism. Libertarians in America tend to be liberal on social issues but conservative on economic issues. Libertarians generally support the legalization of drugs, prostitution, same-sex marriage, euthanasia, polygamy and abortion.


You are free to have nothing to do with prostitution but who do you think you are telling others its not acceptable?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:00 am
 


Legalizing or relaxing the laws on prostitution would make it even more difficult for authorities to find and persecute these pimps.
It is in the best interests in discouraging this from becoming an acceptable "lifestyle" like drug addiction has become.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:30 am
 


ridenrain ridenrain:
Legalizing or relaxing the laws on prostitution would make it even more difficult for authorities to find and persecute these pimps.
It is in the best interests in discouraging this from becoming an acceptable "lifestyle" like drug addiction has become.


Just like legalizing alcohol makes it impossible to effectively control the liquor industry and illegal drugs means its easy as pie to control it.

Legalization means that it becomes a buisness and people in that buisness gain protection under the law just as bar owners and their employees have it.

Australia has legalized prostitution where its a taxed and controlled buisness. Hell I even saw an actual brothel up for sale in the Sydney Morning Herald one time and sent the clipping back here to friends for a laugh.

The fact is that it is not in the best interest to make it illegal as it does nothing to stop it but make it all that more difficult for people wanting to get out to get out. Add to that the freedom of choice angle and to me its no decision required. Legalizae it, tax it, and control it. Educate people about it no different then any other govt ad spot. Make any programs available to help the people thus employed just like any other industry rather then relying on more or less charitable groups who sometimes must skirt the law to help the people who use their services.

When you factor the profit with little legal entanglement for legal buisness owners following the law vs those that don't you would find that most would gravitate to running a legit buisness. Why wouldn't they? They are making profit and not risking ending up in jail.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:01 am
 


DerbyX DerbyX:
Tell me how it being illegal stops this? It doesn't. If it were legal then perhaps she would have went to the police earlier or perhaps they would have some kind of legal group looking after them and protecting them.


Exactly how does legality convince people of that? Alcohol is legal, and yet there are still victims of domestic abuse who will never come forward ever, or rapes that occurred when so and so was drunk. And there are groups that help prostitutes, many churches try to help girls like that to get help, without involving the police. I bet there are other groups, more official ones, that can help to.

It being illegal doesn't prevent it, but making it legal mainstreams it.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:18 am
 


commanderkai commanderkai:
DerbyX DerbyX:
Tell me how it being illegal stops this? It doesn't. If it were legal then perhaps she would have went to the police earlier or perhaps they would have some kind of legal group looking after them and protecting them.


Exactly how does legality convince people of that? Alcohol is legal, and yet there are still victims of domestic abuse who will never come forward ever, or rapes that occurred when so and so was drunk. And there are groups that help prostitutes, many churches try to help girls like that to get help, without involving the police. I bet there are other groups, more official ones, that can help to.

It being illegal doesn't prevent it, but making it legal mainstreams it.


I said perhaps. How many women in that situation hesitate to get legal help because they themselves are guilty of breaking the law and fear an unsympathetic police force thinking they get what they deserve?

No matter what the help groups will be enhanced by the legality as they are in Australia and places that have legalized prostitution in the terms I am describing.

Its actually legal in Canada to a degree with restrictions. Fully legalized simply offers women much more in the way of legal protection.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:37 am
 


DerbyX DerbyX:
commanderkai commanderkai:
DerbyX DerbyX:
Tell me how it being illegal stops this? It doesn't. If it were legal then perhaps she would have went to the police earlier or perhaps they would have some kind of legal group looking after them and protecting them.


Exactly how does legality convince people of that? Alcohol is legal, and yet there are still victims of domestic abuse who will never come forward ever, or rapes that occurred when so and so was drunk. And there are groups that help prostitutes, many churches try to help girls like that to get help, without involving the police. I bet there are other groups, more official ones, that can help to.

It being illegal doesn't prevent it, but making it legal mainstreams it.


I said perhaps. How many women in that situation hesitate to get legal help because they themselves are guilty of breaking the law and fear an unsympathetic police force thinking they get what they deserve?

No matter what the help groups will be enhanced by the legality as they are in Australia and places that have legalized prostitution in the terms I am describing.

Its actually legal in Canada to a degree with restrictions. Fully legalized simply offers women much more in the way of legal protection.


Sure, there might be more organizations that might help prostitutes, but where, exactly, do you believe these prostitutes come from? They're either forced here via illegal immigration/slave trade, or through the manipulation of girls in broken homes. Very, very rarely do girls just decide to be a prostitute when they're living in a middle class home, or even a stable lower class one. Like I said, the organizations that exist today to help rape victims and prostitutes probably won't change, and prostitution will still be seen as a more...shameful profession. I don't think legalization would change anything EXCEPT for two things, revenue to the government in taxes, and possible prevention of STDs...then again, a broken condom isn't the least likely thing to ever happen, and with that...an STD outbreak might just as easily stem from some prostitute whose's...patron condom was defective.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:53 am
 


Think a legal buisness is going to risk everything for the slave trade? Think thats how it works in Australia?

Tell me how making it more legal then it is now will be any worse then what it is now? The same reasons to become one will exist except they will now be able to be employed in a legal brothel. There will always be a stigmatism behind it but with legal protection things would be better.

All the problems you describe exist now. A legal brothel means protection for the girls in a legal and physical sense. A legal brothel means medical checks and medical treatment, access to protection and the ability to refuse customers who don't want to use them.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23589422/


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:20 am
 


If you read what the girl says she felt like after submitting to degrading acts you can see what damage it did to her psyche. Legalizing sexual abuse is what legalizing prostitution would be.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:23 am
 


DerbyX DerbyX:
Think a legal buisness is going to risk everything for the slave trade? Think thats how it works in Australia?

Tell me how making it more legal then it is now will be any worse then what it is now? The same reasons to become one will exist except they will now be able to be employed in a legal brothel. There will always be a stigmatism behind it but with legal protection things would be better.

All the problems you describe exist now. A legal brothel means protection for the girls in a legal and physical sense. A legal brothel means medical checks and medical treatment, access to protection and the ability to refuse customers who don't want to use them.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23589422/


Umm...it happens all the time. Businesses hire illegal immigrants to cut costs. They treat them as basic slaves, in horrible conditions. Yes I do think legal businesses would do that since THEY DO THAT. Simple enough. Denial of the sex slave trade is bad, and the belief that all those Russian and Hungarian and Chinese sex workers in Europe and in North America are freely doing this shows how gullible you are.

You're right, all those problems exist now, and if we legalize them, those problems become hidden under a cloud of legality. Also, believing legal prostitution will end illegal prostitution is another fallacy since legal tobacco hasn't ended illegal cigarette smuggling, or legal alcohol hasn't stopped illegal alcohol smuggling. Pretending that these brothels will stop the spread of STDs, or the stopping of the sex trade is false, because they still happen even in countries with legal prostitution. One broken condom and boom, you have a massive STD outbreak. The porno industries have these every once and a while as well

Nevada has legal prostitution, and yet there are still many illegal prostitutes, why is that?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:39 am
 


commanderkai commanderkai:
Nevada has legal prostitution, and yet there are still many illegal prostitutes, why is that?


Because prostitution is illegal in Clark County and Washoe County? Las Vegas and Reno *are* Nevada to most people.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:42 am
 


commanderkai commanderkai:

Umm...it happens all the time. Businesses hire illegal immigrants to cut costs. They treat them as basic slaves, in horrible conditions. Yes I do think legal businesses would do that since THEY DO THAT. Simple enough. Denial of the sex slave trade is bad, and the belief that all those Russian and Hungarian and Chinese sex workers in Europe and in North America are freely doing this shows how gullible you are.


How many out of legit buisnesses do that? Nobody is denying that their are loads of illegal sex trade workers and that because the industry itslef is completely unlicensed and unregulated. The same checks and balances that exist for legal buisnesses would exist here.

One thing you are neglecting is that these women are lured here under the pretense of legal employment of one sort or another. Once here and turned to prostitution they get told point blank they are comitting crime in Canada and will be severely punished if they go to the police. Thats why they don't until either caught in a raid or they know better. A legal brothel would help this problem because just like any liquor inspection they can easily do the same for the girls and their credentials.

legalization helps solve problems. It doesn't create them since they already exist and no evidence has been shown to say that it exploded the problem.

commanderkai commanderkai:
You're right, all those problems exist now, and if we legalize them, those problems become hidden under a cloud of legality. Also, believing legal prostitution will end illegal prostitution is another fallacy since legal tobacco hasn't ended illegal cigarette smuggling, or legal alcohol hasn't stopped illegal alcohol smuggling. Pretending that these brothels will stop the spread of STDs, or the stopping of the sex trade is false, because they still happen even in countries with legal prostitution. One broken condom and boom, you have a massive STD outbreak. The porno industries have these every once and a while as well

Nevada has legal prostitution, and yet there are still many illegal prostitutes, why is that?


Hidden? Nope. Brought out into the open. Enough of the strawman fallacies. making prositution fully legal would in fact end illegal prositution. What you mean to say is that legal brothels won't eliminate street walker variety prostitution. Thats right. Despite legal brothels in Australia there were girls on every corner on virtually every street of my apartment. So what? Legal brothels still mean protected services, medical access, and some sort of job security far exceeding any non-legal prostitution offers.

BTW, yes I do believe these brothels are a step to reducing STDs. Legal brothels provide all the medical protection and services needed. Illegal operations don't.

Sorry but your argument is simply based on ignorance.

That illegal street walking exists even in the presence of legal operations are for a number of reasons all of them not dealt with under a fully illegal system. Some cannot work in legal brothels for medical reasons and are barred from service.

Every argument you can think of is actually a reason for legalization. Most people simply have a personal problem with it so they want it to remain illegal.

How about the people who view alcohol the same and believe that making it illegal will minimze the drunken fights outside bars, cut down DUIs, cause less familiy violence, improve health, ........

Its freedom baby yeah!


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:46 am
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
If you read what the girl says she felt like after submitting to degrading acts you can see what damage it did to her psyche. Legalizing sexual abuse is what legalizing prostitution would be.


I read it alot differently then you did. I might also post some of the letters from my ex-christian.net saying what they felt that religion did to them.

Can we apply the same standard.

You want the legal right to carry a gun? Start by granting the same right to make life desicions about themselves to to others seems fair to me.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:44 pm
 


ridenrain ridenrain:
Perhaps the advocates of legalized prostitution could tell us how this would change if prostitution were made legal? I would like to hear why this didn't fall into the glamorous description of high priced escorts that advocates of this lifestyle keep mentioning. Living off the profits of prostitution and human trafficking is already illegal and would remain so but I guess this person slipped through the cracks? I doubt it. I'd expect her story is more the average than the exception.


Well, if it was legalized like in other jurisdictions, punishment for runnung illegal brothels would be much harsher (mainly because of tax evasion) for one (Lord knows the CRA hates tax cheaters). In Edmonton, it is essentially a salp on the wrist (a fine and maybe a couple days in the Remand centre). Legalized brothels are also inspected by government officials to ensure safe working conditions, meaning it would be much more difficult to get away with something like this.

While it wouldn't make it impossible to outlaw prostitution, nothing ever will be. However, legalizing it can make it safer (for both parties) and reap huge tax dividends. Bye bye deficit! :lol:

No one who operated a legal brothel would ever allow that type of situation, mainly because it would be bad for business.


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