[Newsbot]

<strong>Title: </strong> <a href="/link.php?id=32917" target="_blank">MacKay mum on possibility of cancelling helicopter deal</a> (click to view)

<strong>Category:</strong> <a href="/news/topic/13-military" target="_blank">Military</a>
<strong>Posted By: </strong> <a href="/modules.php?name=Your_Account&op=userinfo&username=Hyack" target="_blank">Hyack</a>
<strong>Date: </strong> 2008-04-30 17:51:20
<strong>Canadian</strong>

[saturn_656]

The Conservatives would lose my vote if they scrapped the maritime helicopter deal.

They say they are serious about rebuilding the Canadian Forces? Then bloody well do it and don't just pay it fucking lip service!

[uwish]

but what r they supposed to do if they contract is delayed year after year? if they can get out and still get a replacement by a date that is earlier than the cyclone that is fine by me.

I wish crooked face would never have pulled out of the 101 deal. 50 of those at that price even 10 years ago was a steal!

[saturn_656]

uwish uwish:

but what r they supposed to do if they contract is delayed year after year? if they can get out and still get a replacement by a date that is earlier than the cyclone that is fine by me.

I wish crooked face would never have pulled out of the 101 deal. 50 of those at that price even 10 years ago was a steal!

I really doubt that if we started from scratch we could get other new helicopters sooner than Cyclones. These sorts of procurements take many years to work out, if you go the "Canadian" way.

Meanwhile our pilots are riding around in helicopters their grandfathers could have flown (and I think that actually happened in one case). I don't know which pisses me off more, Sikorsky's delays or AgustaWestland suing the Canadian government because their lame duck didn't get bought.

This is starting to get ridiculous really fast.

[ridenrain]

Go to you're car dealer and say you're going to buy 12 trucks.
Sign all the paperwork and right before they are ready to pick up, phone them up and tell them the deal is off.

Then come back a couple years later and ask about those trucks again..

The deal has to continue because we need them, but I agree this still sucks.

[dino_bobba_renno]

Any military buff's on here? How does the Cyclone stack up against the EH-101?

[Regina]

If we are to believe this article is sounds as if it's Sikorsky who's backing out of the current deal. They want to up the price and delay delivery by two years. If I was buying something and that happened I'd back off right away and look at my other options. Considering the new pricing and conditions, maybe the EH-101 is back on the table.

[sasquatch2]

saturn_656

$1:

I really doubt that if we started from scratch we could get other new helicopters sooner than Cyclones. These sorts of procurements take many years to work out, if you go the "Canadian" way.

Meanwhile our pilots are riding around in helicopters their grandfathers could have flown (and I think that actually happened in one case). I don't know which pisses me off more, Sikorsky's delays or AgustaWestland suing the Canadian government because their lame duck didn't get bought.

This is starting to get ridiculous really fast.

Pretty much! If I signed a contract and then found my costs had increased and the contract made no provision for it....I would be stuck with it.
The contract should have penalties for failure to provide the contracted product on time.
This appears to be a breach of contract on sikorsky's part.
Sikorsky should get it's act together.
Rolls-Royce took a big hit when it encountered unseen costs in provided the engines for Lockheeds L1011.

In business some days you get the bear---some days the bear gets you.

[QBall]

$1:

The Globe, citing unnamed senior government officials, said Sikorsky was upping its price because the Cyclones need a more powerful engine to meet Canada's requirements.

I'm sorry, have our requirements changed since the contract was signed that I am unaware of? Shouldn't have Sikorsky provided an adequate engine for the helo based on our tender way back when? Now the engine is no longer adequate, even though the helo and our requirements haven't changed? I saw screw Sikorsky. Cancel the contract, sue them for breach of contract and go with the Europeans ASAP!

[bootlegga]

This whole deal is really strange. As we are the first nation (and currently only) to buy the H-92, you'd think Sikorsky would be trying double time to get them into our hands so everyone can see what wonderful helos they are. It's no big deal being an early adopter (we were for the F-18 as well).

The H-92 is supposed to be able to do everything the EH-101 would have, with the main exception that it has two engines, not three.

The problem is there aren't any quick and ready options. The NH-90 production line is almost year behind too, and if we ordered them, it might be a decade (or more) before we got them. The EH-101s are also in short supply ( the UK bought a bunch to maintian their capability). DND is also leery of them because of the problems we've had with the Cormorant. Seahawk production is 100% committed to the USN.

Sadly, our only option right now is to take it and like it. If we had ordered something right after Chretien cancelled the EH-101 contract, we wouldn't be in this bind (hell anything would be better than nothing), but the Libs really screwed the pooch on the Maritime Helicopter Program.

[commanderkai]

Shouldn't we tell them to deliver? Not only did they delay us by...what? Two...three years? Now they want more money?

As much as we need the helicopters, we shouldn't be screwed over either.

[dino_bobba_renno]

QBall QBall:

$1:

The Globe, citing unnamed senior government officials, said Sikorsky was upping its price because the Cyclones need a more powerful engine to meet Canada's requirements.

I'm sorry, have our requirements changed since the contract was signed that I am unaware of? Shouldn't have Sikorsky provided an adequate engine for the helo based on our tender way back when? Now the engine is no longer adequate, even though the helo and our requirements haven't changed? I saw screw Sikorsky. Cancel the contract, sue them for breach of contract and go with the Europeans ASAP!

The only thing I could think of is maybe the military requested engines suitable for hot and high operations.