[Newsbot]

<strong>Title: </strong> <a href="/link.php?id=28099" target="_blank">Liberals pressure Ottawa to keep Aurora maritime patrol planes</a> (click to view)

<strong>Category:</strong> <a href="/news/topic/14-misc-cdn" target="_blank">Misc CDN</a>
<strong>Posted By: </strong> <a href="/modules.php?name=Your_Account&op=userinfo&username=Hyack" target="_blank">Hyack</a>
<strong>Date: </strong> 2007-12-10 10:13:56
<strong>Canadian</strong>

[uwish]

get new ones and be done with it. I don't care if 2000 people in Qc don't get their nice fat government guaranteed jobs. That was happening far to much for my liking.

They are approaching the end of their service life. Lets not go back to duck tape like we have for the last 20 years. It's time we invested in our defence for gods sake!

[sasquatch2]

LIBRANO's motives regarding defence are predicated on what kick-backs or votes will result.

McKay is correct in reviewing the cost effectiveness of the upgrades. For example how thoroughly have these old airframes been surveyed?

The LIBRANOs are whinning about loosing their pet project.

Despite the USAF steady upgrade of it's venerable B52 fleet....any comparison is mixing apples and oranges. The B52 was so overdesigned ab initio that upgrades are/have been cost effective and there is currently no viable replacement available. The B1 and B2 perform much different roles and are vastly expensive to acquire and operate.

[Scape]

I would like to see us pick up some P-8's.

[sasquatch2]

Yes that would be rational. It is likely Mckay is aware of the US motives for the P8 programme.

$1:

The P-8's predecessor, the Lockheed P-3 Orion ASW aircraft has been in service with the U.S. Navy since 1961. In the mid-1980s the Navy began studies for a replacement aircraft for the P-3 which has lost range/time on station capabilities due to increasing weight and is approaching the end of its fatigue life.

All too often politicians exploit general ignorance of the reality of metal fatigue in dynamic structures such as aircraft, ships, bridges and vehicles (including railway rolling stock).

A large metals recycler hereabouts regularly receives really good looking car-carriers, even grain cars which are under 10 years old but have been condemned for cracks. Scrap yard personellel, especially the "LABOUNTY" operator can readilly point out these cracks. A "LABOUNTY" is what looks like the king cong of metal knibblers mounted on a large hydraulic excavator---it can chew up a railway car in about 20 minutes. These are the primary machines involved in cleaning up derailments.

it's like watching a mechanical T-rex feeding

[bootlegga]

uwish uwish:

get new ones and be done with it. I don't care if 2000 people in Qc don't get their nice fat government guaranteed jobs. That was happening far to much for my liking.

They are approaching the end of their service life. Lets not go back to duck tape like we have for the last 20 years. It's time we invested in our defence for gods sake!

Looks like you didn't even bother to read the article...the contract went to a firm in NOVA SCOTIA, not Quebec.

$1:

In 2005, the previous Liberal government awarded two contracts totalling $961 million to Nova Scotia-based IMP Aerospace and L-3 Electronic Systems for phases three and four of the upgrades.

[bootlegga]

sasquatch2 sasquatch2:

LIBRANO's motives regarding defence are predicated on what kick-backs or votes will result.

McKay is correct in reviewing the cost effectiveness of the upgrades. For example how thoroughly have these old airframes been surveyed?

The LIBRANOs are whinning about loosing their pet project.

Despite the USAF steady upgrade of it's venerable B52 fleet....any comparison is mixing apples and oranges. The B52 was so overdesigned ab initio that upgrades are/have been cost effective and there is currently no viable replacement available. The B1 and B2 perform much different roles and are vastly expensive to acquire and operate.

What no righteous indignation?

The Tories are potentially flushing almost a billion dollars down the toilet...yeah that makes sense. Then again, they are following Tory tradition and killing a project after a previous Liberal government spent a fortune on it (Avro Arrow comes to mind).

[ridenrain]

$1:

Coderre also argued that Ottawa has already spent more than $900 million to upgrade the planes and cancelling the project would cheat taxpayers. In 2005, the Liberals awarded two contracts totalling $961 million to Nova Scotia-based IMP Aerospace and L-3 Electronic Systems to upgrade the planes.

Some 2,000 jobs could be lost in Nova Scotia if the projects are called off, said Coderre.

If those aircraft spend most of their time on the tarmack instead of flying, all that fancy electronics is useless anyways.

I like the Japanese idea. Start with an existing airliner and make sure that the electronics can be removed so it can still double as a transport.

[sasquatch2]

bootlegga

$1:

The Tories are potentially flushing almost a billion dollars down the toilet...yeah that makes sense. Then again, they are following Tory tradition and killing a project after a previous Liberal government spent a fortune on it (Avro Arrow comes to mind).

Comedian!

Have you forgotten the EH101 deal that Cretin cancelled so soon. and then after seeking fruitlessly for an alternative bought it anyway----years later and for more money + paying the penalties from cancelling the contract.

As far as the Arrow.....if the LIBRANOs had won that election in all likelyhood the Arrow would have been cancelled sooner. C.D. Howe, the de facto PM, had already announced that decision in cabinet.

[Streaker]

Fanciful speculations about the Arrow notwithstanding, the Auroras shouldn't be relegated to the backburner.

How rundown can they possibly be?

It would be interesting to hear any comments from Mario regarding this.

[Canadian_Mind]

Scape Scape:

I would like to see us pick up some P-8's.

i'd liek to see a competition between the Poseidon and the Nimrod MRA4, then buy 30-40 units of whichever was the more capable aircraft.

[Streaker]

That Nimrod is a mean looking mother.

Just to complicate things, I'd add the Kawasaki P-1 to the competition.

[kevlarman]

I agree with the competition thing. But it should be a competition between the P-8 Poseidon, the Nimrod MRA4 and the Kawasaki P-1 patrol planes. The west and east coasts should get at least 18 a piece with the north getting 20 (divied up to 10 for the west half of the north and 10 for the eastern half of the north) of whatever plane wins.

I'd also like to see good use of this surveillance plane, the MQ-9 Reaper [web]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MQ-9_Reaper[/web] to help out with our national defence in general, our border patrols and it would be excellant in curbing drug traffic along the US border and the southern halves of our west and east coasts. Which would allow us to better integrate the services we already have and thus greating a great force-multiplier-effect between our armed forces, our search and rescue, our border patrol agents, our RCMP and other provincial law enforcement.

While we're at it we need to also include a safe replacement for the dying chinooks. Because if we're going to do this, we should do it right and not piss around.

[bootlegga]

sasquatch2 sasquatch2:

Comedian!

Have you forgotten the EH101 deal that Cretin cancelled so soon. and then after seeking fruitlessly for an alternative bought it anyway----years later and for more money + paying the penalties from cancelling the contract.

As far as the Arrow.....if the LIBRANOs had won that election in all likelyhood the Arrow would have been cancelled sooner. C.D. Howe, the de facto PM, had already announced that decision in cabinet.

How did I know someone was going to mention the EH-101? Apparently, it's okay to waste $900 million on a defence contract if you're Conservative, but a bloody outrage to waste $500 million on a defence contract if you're Liberal...

[sasquatch2]

There is a vast difference to cancelling a contract to replace badly needed helos by a globally acknowledged new state-of the art helo versus a LIBRANO kickback boondoggle to patch up flying scrap heaps.....a repeat of the SEA_KING scandal.