[Newsbot]

Title: We're told the EU makes us all stronger but Greece may make you change your mind
Category: Business
Posted By: martin14
Date: 2016-06-18 01:14:05

[martin14]

A little persperctive on what things are like in Greece.

It's a shame they have such whores for politicians; they could have left and been on the way to recovery by now.

[Freakinoldguy]

$1:

The country was brought to its knees by its huge profligacy after joining the EU and then milking the system for everything it was worth.

That statement says it all. Trust me. I've got no love for Merkel's Germany but the fact remains that Greece lived the good life on other peoples money and now when those people want that money back they suddenly become the bad guys.

Some things should have happened long ago and the biggest one is that Greece should have never been allowed to borrow those completely outrageous amounts of money from the EU to finance it's idiotically lavish lifestyle, a lifestyle that any reasonable gov't, individual or group should have known couldn't be sustained.

$1:

The country’s debts piled up even as the Greek gravy train hurtled towards the buffers. In a sign of those times, hairdressers were listed among the 600 ‘professions’ allowed to retire at 50 (with a state pension of 95 per cent of their final year’s earnings) on account of the ‘arduous and perilous’ nature of their work

Painful as it is for both sides the only thing to happen should be that the EU works alot more closely and compassionately with Greece to minimize the damage of their drunken excesses especially since it's completely destroying lives? But, in no way shape or form should Greece be able to walk away from their responsibility to repay the debt they owe especially since someone will have to pay for this insanity and if it's not the beneficiary who should it be?

So, while maybe not as excessive as Greece, Ontario and Canada are heading down the same path as them by virtue of borrowing exorbitant amounts of money with no guaranteed source of revenue to be able to pay it back. It is something that we, as a large borrower nation should take a long hard look at because, despite the fact that the EU is acting like a bunch of Mafia Loan Sharks when dealing with Greece one day we, our grand children or our grand children's children will ultimately be responsible for paying back the debt we clock up now because.

Nobody rides for free.

[Lemmy]

Sorry FOG, but you're not comprehending the problem nor the economics behind it. Greece's problem isn't its debt so much as its currency. What Greece really needs is a relationship in the EU like Britain's: part of the EU but with its own currency.

[andyt]

No doubt that's true, but Greece still borrowed the money and the EU lent it. Seems to me they both share blame and should share the pain. The people running the EU don't really seem to know what they are doing - grandiose plans with no consideration of the downside.

[Lemmy]

That's the thing, everyone's to blame, the Germans as much as the Greeks. It's not like the Greeks are living high on the hog at Germany's expense. Worse, the prevailing conservative notion that public debt is, in any way, comparable to personal debt and personal finance is laughable. Frustrating, very frustrating.

[andyt]

Nope. The Germans lent the money to have a market for their goods. Not sure if that equation comes out positive in the end.

[Brenda]

Greece's worst mistake was joining the Euro. Greece used to be one of the cheapest holiday destinations and tourism brought in most of their income. When they joined the Euro, that advantage was gone. Add the stupid way of (not) collecting taxes and thus misbudgetting, and down the drain you go.

[martin14]

^^

Most of the above is true.

Greece should never have joined, in fact they lied through their teeth to get in. Big mistake.
They should not have continued borrowing like mad, especially for things like letting hairdressers retire on full pension at 50.
Or borrowing money from Germany to buy subs from Germany.
3 billion for subs that never hit the water; and you thought we were stupid.
They have had 20 years to try and reform their economy, but some things just
aren't going to change, like the mentality of the people.

The real crime is that Greece is completely unable to do anything to try and get out
of their situation.
Can't change currency.
Can't change monetary policy.
Can't change the government, and even if they did, the new government would be
bought off as fast as the old one.
Can never actually repay their debt to any meaningful degree.

The only thing the Greek people can do is: leave Greece.
And they do, which only makes the situation in the country worse.

If anyone needed to get out of the EU, it is Greece.

But they aren't alone.

[Freakinoldguy]

Lemmy Lemmy:

That's the thing, everyone's to blame, the Germans as much as the Greeks. It's not like the Greeks are living high on the hog at Germany's expense. Worse, the prevailing conservative notion that public debt is, in any way, comparable to personal debt and personal finance is laughable. Frustrating, very frustrating.

I never said the EU and especially the Germans were blameless. Those clods lent money like a Mafia Don on a coke jag and then got especially ugly when they discovered the Greeks couldn't repay the vig let alone the principal.

Now with that being said, the money has to be repaid and since the Greeks are the morons who borrowed those vast amounts they knew they would never be able to repay just to finance their champagne lifestyle, they have to pay. Should the repayment plan destroy lives and a country. No. The repayment should be designed to maximise the payment while minimising the adverse impacts. As for the EU, any intelligent person knows that if you kill your debtor you're going to lose your investment so it behoves them to work this out with Greece, something they apparently aren't all that willing to do.

Societies and individuals as a whole have become far to comfortable with borrowing large sums of money with no reasonable of expectation of paying it back in a timely fashion and unfortunately, when the bill comes due this is the result.

[Lemmy]

Again, you're applying your beliefs about personal finance to public finances. It's not that simple.

[BartSimpson]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Again, you're applying your beliefs about personal finance to public finances. It's not that simple.

Except that in the case of Greece, it is. Because Greece no longer controls its currency or banking system then it is more like a private individual than it is a sovereign power that can make its own financial decisions.

Brussels, Paris, and Berlin are dictating policy to Greece. Not unlike how debt collectors dictate to the people who owe them money.