[OnTheIce]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

But that's the thing, all you and yours have offered so far have been your usual fallback position of snotty smears, and slurs. The parents are suing. That's a fact. If you're calling facts insanity you're an idiot..

Because that's what your posturing deserves.

The parents don't have a case. Even in our schools in Ontario, we learn different things at different times and at different lengths. Just because the grade 5th focused heavily on African history this year and a little on American history doesn't mean it's due for a human rights complaint or lawsuit.

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Are the parents claims facts? I don't know but it does appear to be a fact that they are making such claims in their Lawsuit.

Lawsuits aren't factual. They are a statement of the views and opinions of one individual.

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

However, I suggest if the girl really was (as the parents claim) forced to memorize and repeat statements like “Most Muslims’ faith is stronger than the average Christian.” under penalty of a Zero grade if she did not comply then one faith is being forced upon her in that such memes would be designed to subvert the other faith she follows..

It's school work. Stop looking at it as religious indoctrination. It's school work. If you don't do it. You fail.

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

They also claim their daughter was forced to devote at least 10 times the amount of time to inculcating such requisites of this foreign faith into her mind over that of her own.

Americans know little about anything beyond it's borders. Nothing wrong with focusing on a religion or culture that children weren't born into.

It's a pretty simple case here. Anti-Islam parents looking to ride their bigotry to a payday on the back of their child.

[BartSimpson]

Curious: Are Muslim students allowed to opt out of the instruction on other faiths?

[stratos]

$1:

The Wood's daughter, who is referred to as C.W. in the suit because she is a minor, was allegedly removed from the course and issued failing grades on her assignments because she "refused to deny and insult her Christian beliefs" by participating in activities that she believed affirmed that Muslims hold stronger faith convictions than Christians.

IF they can prove that there was a promotion of Islamic religion in the course then this will win the case. All the rest of the law suite is BS. IMO. I have plenty of teachers use material NOT in the text book. 11th Grade history teacher had wonderful green booklets about different countries and cultures. They stayed in class never once did we take them home. In reading this I for the most part feel they, the parents, are over reacting to push through their own agenda.

[N_Fiddledog]

$1:

Americans know little about anything beyond it's borders. Nothing wrong with focusing on a religion or culture that children weren't born into.

It's a pretty simple case here. Anti-Islam parents looking to ride their bigotry to a payday on the back of their child.

You say all this with such authority. I'm going to assume you're some sort of American law expert.

Cool, cause I'm not. Explain something to me then. The First Amendment guarantees freedom of religion. The Fourteenth guarantees equal protection under the law. So if the government were inculcating indoctrination through repetitive, over-stressed claims of one religious doctrine over another at the rate of 10 times the time spent on one over the other how would that not be contrary to freedom to practice one's own religion and to have equal protection under the law?

If it's history that's one thing, but being taught Muslims are more serious about their faith than you are about yours is not history. It's a claim of superior worship. And it's one you are required to repeat as fact to advance in your education. How is that not a form of indoctrination? How is indoctrination of one faith over the other not contrary to religious freedom and equal protection under the law?

[N_Fiddledog]

Understand though, I am not saying the parents claims are necessarily the complete factual truth.

I'm saying if they do turn out to be more factual than the counter-claims the parents would appear to have a case under American law based on what little I know about it.

[OnTheIce]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Cool, cause I'm not. Explain something to me then. The First Amendment guarantees freedom of religion. The Fourteenth guarantees equal protection under the law. So if the government were inculcating indoctrination through repetitive, over-stressed claims of one religious doctrine over another at the rate of 10 times the time spent on one over the other how would that not be contrary to freedom to practice one's own religion and to have equal protection under the law?

Again, your bias is showing. Take religion out of it.

This is a school subject that is being taught this year more than other subjects. It's like studying the War of 1812 10x more than WWII.

It's not to say that you'll never learn about WWII but at this point, in this school year, we're going to learn about the War of 1812.

Are you suggesting that all schools teach an exact equal amount about all religions every year? I know for certain that you wouldn't be here complaining that 10x more stuff about Christianity was being taught.

Religion shouldn't be taught in schools in the first place. It has no place in the classroom.

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

If it's history that's one thing, but being taught Muslims are more serious about their faith than you are about yours is not history. It's a claim of superior worship. And it's one you are required to repeat as fact to advance in your education. How is that not a form of indoctrination? How is indoctrination of one faith over the other not contrary to religious freedom and equal protection under the law?

You're being taught what many Muslims think about their faith. You think Christianity is better than Islam.

[N_Fiddledog]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Again, your bias is showing. Take religion out of it.

I could take religion out of it easy enough, but first you would have to get the Americans to change their first amendment so it doesn't specifically demand freedom of religion under the law. Get back to me on how successful you are with that one.

$1:

Are you suggesting that all schools teach an exact equal amount about all religions every year? I know for certain that you wouldn't be here complaining that 10x more stuff about Christianity was being taught.

I'm not complaining. I'm telling you there is a lawsuit before American courts where two Christian parents are objecting based on their belief their daughter is being indoctrinated to one religion over the one they practice.

$1:

Religion shouldn't be taught in schools in the first place. It has no place in the classroom.

Believe it or not I agree.

I will also agree with you about another thing. If schools were teaching religion I would have a particular personal objection to making Islam a priority, or preaching that one over others. There's no denial here that I view Islam is evidenced as a more dangerous enemy ideology than anything currently found in other religions. I believe indoctrinating school kids towards it would be societally suicidal. But that belief does not make the facts of this case untrue.

[OnTheIce]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

I'm not complaining. I'm telling you there is a lawsuit before American courts where two Christian parents are objecting based on their belief their daughter is being indoctrinated to one religion over the one they practice.

Not complaining?This was posted simply due to your anti-Islam views. It's your way of complaining about Islam.

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

I will also agree with you about another thing. If schools were teaching religion I would have a particular personal objection to making Islam a priority, or preaching that one over others. There's no denial here that I view Islam is evidenced as a more dangerous enemy ideology than anything currently found in other religions. I believe indoctrinating school kids towards it would be societally suicidal. But that belief does not make the facts of this case untrue.

I view all religions as dangerous. Islam is no different. Look at what it's done to you. Despite my views, I don't pull my kids out of lessons at school about Christianity or Islam because religion is a fact of life for many.

[N_Fiddledog]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

I'm not complaining. I'm telling you there is a lawsuit before American courts where two Christian parents are objecting based on their belief their daughter is being indoctrinated to one religion over the one they practice.

Not complaining?This was posted simply due to your anti-Islam views. It's your way of complaining about Islam.

Nonsense. I posted about 10 stories that day. This just happened to be the most popular one of that day is all. But yes I have an interest in the dangers of Islamic ideology so if a story comes up concerning that issue I'm more likely to post it than I would on a story about say what makes Justin so dreamy. Sorry CBC.

However You can thank Andy for the post being most popular. His indoctrination forces him to get exited whenever he sees stories he worries might insinuate indoctrination. I notice there's a little group that shares that hysteria.

Basically, Andy objected to a news service reporting on a lawsuit where claims of religious indoctrination were made. Apparently if you tell people of the existence of such lawsuits you're a lying poophead.

I disagreed. And so it began...

Now as to your claims of a superior understanding of what goes on in my head, I disagree. I am opposed to indoctrination in general. I am pro free speech. In particular I am for speech that can be shown to be correct as it can be here. The lawsuit exists. Claims were made. People have a right to be told such things exist. As far this particular conversation goes those are my priorities.

Would I be right in saying your anxiousness to jump in means you are anti speech, and pro-indoctrination?

If we're making claims about what motivates the other, I mean.

[BartSimpson]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

I view all religions as dangerous.

Bigot.

[OnTheIce]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

I view all religions as dangerous.

Bigot.

You need to learn the proper definition of bigot.

I'm not intolerant of people of faith. As I have said above, my kids participate in all sorts of religious teachings at school based on their curriculum.

I find religion itself to be dangerous. A set of beliefs that people so blindly stick to is not good for anyone. Whether it be Islam or Christianity, it's all the same to me. It doesn't make you a better person.

People of faith are welcome to their beliefs but just because I don't believe in some fictional being or story, doesn't make me a bigot.

[OnTheIce]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

People have a right to be told such things exist. As far this particular conversation goes those are my priorities.

Why lie about your motives? I don't understand. You've got 1 foot in the water and one foot out. Make up your mind.

Just go 100% towards your anti-Islam beliefs and leave the PC crap for people who actually might believe you. I don't.

Actions speak louder than words and your actions are very clear, no matter how many words you use to dance around the real motive.

[andyt]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

andyt andyt:

The parents are right.

According to Google's headline on the search How to become a Muslim:

$1:

One may convert alone in privacy, or he/she may do so in the presence of others. If anyone has a real desire to be a Muslim and has full conviction and strong belief that Islam is the true religion of God, then, all one needs to do is pronounce the "Shahada", the testimony of faith, without further delay.Jun 17, 2012

The key part here:

$1:

all one needs to do is pronounce the "Shahada"

In most Sharia-compliant nations this girl is now a Moslem and she is eligible for the death penalty if she decides to quit that evil, Moloch-worshipping cult.

She did not say the Shahada, she wrote it on a banner. And as Beaver says, you have to mean it.

[N_Fiddledog]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Why lie about your motives?

Why lie about yours.

You have no interest in the topic. Your interest is nothing more than a lame attempt at playing gotcha.

I can't even say nice try.

Try this then. "Fail."

[OnTheIce]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Why lie about your motives?

Why lie about yours.

You have no interest in the topic. Your interest is nothing more than a lame attempt at playing gotcha.

I can't even say nice try.

Try this then. "Fail."

Fail?

My motives are clear. Calling you out for your consistent anti-Islam commentary is just part of it. I have an interest in the topic, hence the reason I jumped in.

I truly do enjoy watching rabid Christians froth at anything and everything Islam so much so, it's comical.