Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:
The "NIMBYs" had a private deal shoved down their throats.
Not any more than anyone else that lives near some unused land that get developed into something. The area was zoned for industrial use, and was the location of a manufacturing plant.
The argument against the plant doesn't seem very compelling. It sound to be, we don't want it because we don't like it.
Do you think their are any reasonable issues for health, noise or safety?
$1:
The huge costs of ending the projects were due to the utter incompetence of arrogant commissars who tried to shove these projects down the public's throats. Before this is finished, people will go to jail for this, mark my word and it won't be any of those miserable "NIMBYs' who were being forced to live with someone else's dirty deal.
What was or was not the deal isn't the issue I'm arguing for. My point is just that their is no real good reason not to build the plant in that location. And this is just a bunch of rich people crying over some development they don't like because... reasons.
$1:
It wasn't a "development like any other". It was two power plants in one of the nicest, most established neighbourhoods in the entire country.
It was to be built beside a railroad yard, and it's not IN the neighbourhood, but beside it.
But a question WTF does 'established' mean in the context of why you shouldn't build a power plant? Or did you just say 'It was two power plants in one of the RICHEST, most WEALTHY neighbourhoods'?
Would people living in a bunch of crack shacks, with a high crime and a run down neighbourhood have any less of a reason to not have a power plant built near by?
$1:
It started out pretty quietly because it was strictly a private enterprise deal, at first. As I recall, the original business plan had the American owner-operator generating electricity in Canada, using Canadian gas for export to the U.S. (we share a common grid here but electricity usually flows North-to-South).
Everything I've read said it was to provide power to the Toronto area. The trading of electrical power on the grid is a standard operation for all power generators and is required to make the system work.
$1:
You've been reading about this for years, have you? You seem to know surprisingly little about it.
My interest has always been low, it seemed like something that would take some time to pan out. IIRC the first time I heard about this was over the cost. I will admit I never heard or read anything in the lead up to the stopping of the plant.
$1:
If this process had happened in Alberta, people would be taking shots (literally) over the "big government" boogieman forcing the public to take an edict from on high (like the NEP did).
Like I said, most home owners are idiots that can't see past their own fence. If someone wanted to replace the old shut down coal fired power plant in Edmonton with a new gas plant I'm sure all the Hipsters that moved in around it would act just the same. I would also shit on them for their NIMBYism.
$1:
Even Ontarians have the right to fight back against arbitrary authority. You might be a "NIMBY", yourself, one day given the right series of events. Got a sour gas pipeline running through your neighborhood? Was there lot of proper consultation? Did you provincial government approve of it without ever asking you?
Funny you should say so, not long ago I got a letter about some gas main work and changes that were going forward. I couldn't say who approved it because I don't care and never bothered to go to any of the meetings. But the network of high and lower pressure pipes is going to get changed around. I'm taking the view that you don't go and dig up a city for fun so they likely have a valid reason for the changes.
$1:
They suck up huge amounts of oxygen and generate all sorts of CO. Big turbines are noisy, too. Build them outside of residential neighbourhoods. Five, ten kilometer away gets you out of where people live. It's a no-brainer.
When was the last time you toured a natural gas plant, or a coal fired plant, or a nuclear plant?
The are not loud. Or I should say, they are not loud enough to bother people. Also they are much more quiet than railyards and highways.
As for the emissions they pose no risk to human health. Everyone agrees on this point, which is one of the many reasons why natural gas is preferred over coal. Even clean coal.
$1:
BTW, Ontario has had an electricity surplus for years, now. We are generally, a net exporter of electricity even without those gas fired plants, so it appears that they were unnecessary from the beginning,
The power network is a bit more complex than a simple in and out measure. The large amount of nuclear power means that it's economical to run those plants all the time at peak output. During the night even if all the other power plants go into a low standby mode Ontario might still produce more power than it needs. This can lead to a huge amount of net export even if during the day imports might be needed to meet the peak of demand.
A gas fired plant is easy to ramp up and down in production. Also not all sources of power are the same, Ontario still runs coal fired plants. You can't shut those off until you have a replacement. Further with the move to solar and wind power you will need more stand by in the form of gas powered plant to make up demand when the wind and solar plants are in low production.
Building gas fired plants is smart because most of their costs come from the fuel, and they can very quickly power up to meet demand.
That you think Ontario doesn't need gas plants because they are a net exporter of power, just shows you know very little about an integrated power grid. Maybe you should run for public office.
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