[PluggyRug]

andyt andyt:

Bigotry is bigotry, no matter if you want to quibble about terms. To condemn all Muslims is racist as the term is understood by anybody with an ounce of sense. To want to expel 2.6 million Muslims from Britain is ethnic cleansing. You want to call it religious cleansing and that makes you feel virtuous, happy delusions.

Then I would rather be a bigot than a littlot who walks around with eye's wide shut.

[N_Fiddledog]

andyt andyt:

Got any that aren't just Muslim hate sites.

Of course...not that the previous two were hate. If you see facts as hate, then you're the one with the problem. But yes, I told you I had the mainstream stuff. Did you not listen?

OK, so you've got to know, I've got video, but before I offer a BBC vid up for you to ignore, I have to set the scene.

For 20 years this issue of Muslim Grooming Gangs was swept under the rug. Social workers ignored what was happening in front of their own eyes. The police refused to act when complaints were made. There were some media hints something was going on, but the mainstream had no more balls than your average social worker or London Bobby. One imagines they would not act out of fear of being considered racist or they had some equally gutless excuse.

OK, then something happened...

When exactly the Muslims started targeting Sikh girls nobody's sure, but they did, and it eventually created a stir that forced the issue into the public eye in a way that could no longer be considered just racist.

A Sikh's daughter had been groomed. He went to the authorities. They would do nothing. The Sikh community got involved. They sent a contingent down to the groomer's Fallafel house, tore it apart, kicked the crap out of everybody inside and threatened death on the gang heads when they were found.

That made the papers. Also it woke up the EDL. The EDL went nuclear with protests, media mentions, and speeches until the MSM could no longer pretend the issue did not exist. At that point the police had to start laying charges, and once they did everybody discovered this phenomena of Muslim Grooming Gangs targeting young girls was larger and more horrible than anybody dreamed.

OK so here's the BBC video that deals exclusively with the Sikh side of the issue.

[martin14]

andyt andyt:

How many men was it? 12?

I was waiting for Jabbie to continue our discussion, but this will do.


Rochdale, May 2012

$1:

Kabeer Hassan 9 years Rape, Conspiracy to engage in sexual activity with children
Abdul Aziz 9 years Trafficking for sexual exploitation, Conspiracy to engage in sexual activity with children
Abdul Rauf 6 years Trafficking for sexual exploitation, Conspiracy to engage in sexual activity with children
Adil Khan 8 years Trafficking for sexual exploitation, Conspiracy to engage in sexual activity with children
Mohammed Sajid 12 years Rape, Sexual activity with a girl under 16, Trafficking for sexual exploitation, Conspiracy to engage in sexual activity with children
Mohammed Amin 5 years Sexual assault, Conspiracy to engage in sexual activity with children
Hamid Safi 4 years Trafficking for sexual exploitation, Conspiracy to engage in sexual activity with children
Abdul Qayyum 5 years Conspiracy to engage in sexual activity with children
Shabir Ahmed[18] 19 years Rape, Aiding and abetting a rape, Sexual assault, Trafficking for sexual exploitation, Conspiracy to engage in sexual activity with children

There is a second gang being investigated.


Rotherham, 2010

$1:

Zafran Ramzan rape, 2 charges of sexual activity with a child 9 years
Razwan Razaq 2 charges of sexual activity with a child 11 years
Umar Razaq sexual activity with a child 4.5 years
Adil Hussain sexual activity with a child 4 years
Mohsin Khan sexual activity with a child 4 years

It took an investigation by the Times to get police to actually lay charges.
Girls as young as 12.



Oxford, 2013

$1:

The gang comprised two sets of brothers, Mohammed Karrar, 38, and Bassam Karrar, 33, and Akhtar Dogar, 32, and Anjum Dogar, 31, with Kamar Jamil, 27, Assad Hussain, 32, and Zeeshan Ahmed, 27. Five were of Pakistani Muslim heritage and two, the Karrar brothers, of North African Muslim heritage.

Girls 11 - 15 years old, crack, heroin, gangraped, held for days, the works.


Telford, 2012

$1:

Ahdel Ali, 25, was given a 26-year sentence including 18 years in prison.
Mubarek Ali, 29, received a 22-year sentence including 14 years in prison.
Mohammed Ali Sultan, 26
Tanveer Ahmed, 40
Mohammed Islam Choudhrey, 53
Mahroof Khan, 35
Mohammed Younis, 60.

A Channel 4 investigation into the gang revealed:

appalling accounts about men who would ejaculate and then urinate in children's mouths, violating them in every orifice, as well as gang-rape by queues of men while girls were held hostage for hours, sometimes days – all the while being forced to listen to the screams of girls in other rooms with other men.


Derby, these guys have to be the winners.

$1:

Abid Mohammed Saddique rape, sexual assault, sexual activity with a child, perverting the course of justice, aiding and abetting rape, false imprisonment, making child pornography
Romaan Liaqat rape, sexual assault, aiding and abetting rape, affray, sexual activity with a child, making child pornography
Akshay Kumar making child pornography
Faisal Mehmood sexual activity with a child
Mohammed Imran Rehman rape
Graham Blackham breaches of Sexual Offender Prevention Order

75 charges with 'only' 26 victims, the police believe there are lots more.

$1:

Two victims were threatened with hammers while another was locked up before being raped.[5] Sometimes, up to six men would be involved in the often violent assaults which the gang would film on their mobile phones.[3] Three gang members were filmed having sex with a 14-year-old girl in a hotel room to the sound of noisy cheering.

There another gang in Rochdale under investigation.

There are another dozen Muslim gangs across the UK under investigation.

All Muslim perps, all white victims. If it was the other way round, everyone would
be screaming for hate crime charges.
These cases ? Nothing.






---------------



So, when we get a Muslim in Halifax handing out pamphlets about how white women are 'asking' for it, or a guy in Vancouver running his own little gang...

Well this is what the future will reveal to you.

I'm sure no one opened the other links, but here it is..

$1:

According to an announcement Wednesday designed to highlight the issue of the alleged exploitation of young women and girls, Yasin Mohamed, 25, of Ottawa was arrested along with two other men in Newmarket, Ont., said Det. Sgt. Peter Casey. All three were charged with human trafficking or other related offences,

[andyt]

You pick out the Muslims and make it seem as if those are the only ones raping or grooming young girls. As I say, men of all races/religions/what have you do this. Eastern Europeans I understand are big on it for instance. How is that any better than Muslims doing it.

I have no use for hate crime legislation, but you want to charge them with hate crimes, fine.

But let's say you're right, there's an epidemic of Muslims in on a conspiracy to rape and groom our white girls. Aside from what already happened, ie prison when found guilty, what exactly do you want to do about it? Thanos wants to cleanse Britain (presumably Canada as well) of all Muslims. Is that what you think too? Do you seriously think that would be feasible

The shame is that these crimes were being ignored for fear of being accused of racism. And, looks like that shame was exposed by the media, let's hope it doesn't happen again. But if you focus only on Muslims doing this, you'll miss all the other groups or individuals doing it. Why not just focus on men doing this to girls, arrest them all as it comes to light and give them stiff sentences. It's how we deal with all the other crimes that people commit. Short of gas chambers and ovens, doubt there's anything else to do.

Well yes there is. Make better connections with the Muslims that speak out against this. Just googling this situation, they're out there. But they're not going to get onside if they're faced with people calling for their expulsion from the country they might have been born in. This is our most effective weapon against Muslim terror too - make connections with the sane part of the community. They are best place to report what's going on.

Your hatred of Muslims is blinding you to the fact that this sort of thing is happening to girls done by men from all backgrounds. The guy in Vancouver might be Muslim, but he's part of the gang scene. Not Muslim gangs, just gangs with people of all backgrounds in them. Next time it could be a white guy on trial for the same thing. Your heros the HA, I understand, are big on this sort of thing. And it's mostly white and native girls that are the victims because those are the ones running away from home.

[Freakinoldguy]

andyt andyt:

Maybe just build some ovens to take care of them?

Finally a plan we can all get behind when dealing with EVERY pedophile and the best part is that we don't even have to do any research to find out how well it works.

[martin14]

andyt andyt:

You pick out the Muslims and make it seem as if those are the only ones raping or grooming young girls.

Nope. 7% of the population, 33% of the sex gang crime. No problems there.

Andy, your usual tactic of using nothing but deflection isn't going to work anymore.
It's as bad as the Islam is all rainbows and unicorn farts bunch that have their heads firmly up their asses, and refuse to see something might be wrong.

Stop deflecting, address the issues for what they are.

When whitey does something, I'm sure you'll be the first to let us know.

[andyt]

Great. But the suggestion is about doing this to all Muslims. Well to be fair, just ethnically/religiously (whatever quibble word you want to use) cleanse them. You down for that too? This isn't a discussion about sentences for convicted pedophiles, it's that apparently the only way to deal with this scourge is evict all Muslims. Thumbs up for that too?

[martin14]

andyt andyt:

Great. But the suggestion is about doing this to all Muslims. Well to be fair, just ethnically/religiously (whatever quibble word you want to use) cleanse them. You down for that too? This isn't a discussion about sentences for convicted pedophiles, it's that apparently the only way to deal with this scourge is evict all Muslims. Thumbs up for that too?

Andy, stop making it about me, ok ?
Attacking the messenger isn't going to change things, it's just another fail for you.

It is about immigration. And integration. And the PC brigade, who wish to sweep everything
under the rug.

It is about what values do we keep as a society.

I have no wish for these kinds of things to be transplanted from Britain to Canada.
In it's low level way, they are. It needs to be stopped.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

andyt andyt:

Bigotry is bigotry, no matter if you want to quibble about terms. To condemn all Muslims is racist as the term is understood by anybody with an ounce of sense.

Anybody with an ounce of intelligence understands full well that "Muslim" is not a race.
If an atheist condemns all Christians, does that make them racist as well? Of course not. You can't be racist against a religion. But if said atheist started to condemn all Muslims, suddenly that's "racist". What a load of codswallop.

At worst, what F-Dog and others (including myself) are guilty of is religious bigotry and with good reason. Islam is not compatible with any other religion or form of govt. It is definitely not compatible with Western ideals.

Take a good look at some the European countries. There are large Muslim enclaves in various cities where the laws of country they are in mean absolutely NOTHING!

Yet despite a country like Sweden, which is far more socially progressive than Canada, having major issues with Muslims, Muslim gangs and enclaves, we still have idiots here in Canada assuring us that it won't happen here. Well, there's only one way to make sure it doesn't happen here and pretending it won't isn't the solution.

[GreenTiger]

True, this guy is a pedophile and a pimp and should be an immediate candidate as an organ doner, but from his point of view he can start his own religion. Mohammed was a pimp and a Pedophile, started his own religion and is adored so can this individual.

[Jabberwalker]

martin14 martin14:

andyt andyt:

How many men was it? 12?

I was waiting for Jabbie to continue our discussion, but this will do.


Rochdale, May 2012

$1:

Kabeer Hassan 9 years Rape, Conspiracy to engage in sexual activity with children
Abdul Aziz 9 years Trafficking for sexual exploitation, Conspiracy to engage in sexual activity with children
Abdul Rauf 6 years Trafficking for sexual exploitation, Conspiracy to engage in sexual activity with children
Adil Khan 8 years Trafficking for sexual exploitation, Conspiracy to engage in sexual activity with children
Mohammed Sajid 12 years Rape, Sexual activity with a girl under 16, Trafficking for sexual exploitation, Conspiracy to engage in sexual activity with children
Mohammed Amin 5 years Sexual assault, Conspiracy to engage in sexual activity with children
Hamid Safi 4 years Trafficking for sexual exploitation, Conspiracy to engage in sexual activity with children
Abdul Qayyum 5 years Conspiracy to engage in sexual activity with children
Shabir Ahmed[18] 19 years Rape, Aiding and abetting a rape, Sexual assault, Trafficking for sexual exploitation, Conspiracy to engage in sexual activity with children

There is a second gang being investigated.


Rotherham, 2010

$1:

Zafran Ramzan rape, 2 charges of sexual activity with a child 9 years
Razwan Razaq 2 charges of sexual activity with a child 11 years
Umar Razaq sexual activity with a child 4.5 years
Adil Hussain sexual activity with a child 4 years
Mohsin Khan sexual activity with a child 4 years

It took an investigation by the Times to get police to actually lay charges.
Girls as young as 12.



Oxford, 2013

$1:

The gang comprised two sets of brothers, Mohammed Karrar, 38, and Bassam Karrar, 33, and Akhtar Dogar, 32, and Anjum Dogar, 31, with Kamar Jamil, 27, Assad Hussain, 32, and Zeeshan Ahmed, 27. Five were of Pakistani Muslim heritage and two, the Karrar brothers, of North African Muslim heritage.

Girls 11 - 15 years old, crack, heroin, gangraped, held for days, the works.


Telford, 2012

$1:

Ahdel Ali, 25, was given a 26-year sentence including 18 years in prison.
Mubarek Ali, 29, received a 22-year sentence including 14 years in prison.
Mohammed Ali Sultan, 26
Tanveer Ahmed, 40
Mohammed Islam Choudhrey, 53
Mahroof Khan, 35
Mohammed Younis, 60.

A Channel 4 investigation into the gang revealed:

appalling accounts about men who would ejaculate and then urinate in children's mouths, violating them in every orifice, as well as gang-rape by queues of men while girls were held hostage for hours, sometimes days – all the while being forced to listen to the screams of girls in other rooms with other men.


Derby, these guys have to be the winners.

$1:

Abid Mohammed Saddique rape, sexual assault, sexual activity with a child, perverting the course of justice, aiding and abetting rape, false imprisonment, making child pornography
Romaan Liaqat rape, sexual assault, aiding and abetting rape, affray, sexual activity with a child, making child pornography
Akshay Kumar making child pornography
Faisal Mehmood sexual activity with a child
Mohammed Imran Rehman rape
Graham Blackham breaches of Sexual Offender Prevention Order

75 charges with 'only' 26 victims, the police believe there are lots more.

$1:

Two victims were threatened with hammers while another was locked up before being raped.[5] Sometimes, up to six men would be involved in the often violent assaults which the gang would film on their mobile phones.[3] Three gang members were filmed having sex with a 14-year-old girl in a hotel room to the sound of noisy cheering.

There another gang in Rochdale under investigation.

There are another dozen Muslim gangs across the UK under investigation.

All Muslim perps, all white victims. If it was the other way round, everyone would
be screaming for hate crime charges.
These cases ? Nothing.






---------------



So, when we get a Muslim in Halifax handing out pamphlets about how white women are 'asking' for it, or a guy in Vancouver running his own little gang...

Well this is what the future will reveal to you.

I'm sure no one opened the other links, but here it is..

$1:

According to an announcement Wednesday designed to highlight the issue of the alleged exploitation of young women and girls, Yasin Mohamed, 25, of Ottawa was arrested along with two other men in Newmarket, Ont., said Det. Sgt. Peter Casey. All three were charged with human trafficking or other related offences,

The "grooming" thing is a new concept for me and as I look more deeply into it, I am thoroughly appalled. We haven't had that scourge visit us yet. I thought that is was some sort of tabloid sensationalism thing. This is a serious threat.

[andyt]

martin14 martin14:

andyt andyt:

Great. But the suggestion is about doing this to all Muslims. Well to be fair, just ethnically/religiously (whatever quibble word you want to use) cleanse them. You down for that too? This isn't a discussion about sentences for convicted pedophiles, it's that apparently the only way to deal with this scourge is evict all Muslims. Thumbs up for that too?

Andy, stop making it about me, ok ?
Attacking the messenger isn't going to change things, it's just another fail for you.

It is about immigration. And integration. And the PC brigade, who wish to sweep everything
under the rug.

It is about what values do we keep as a society.

I have no wish for these kinds of things to be transplanted from Britain to Canada.
In it's low level way, they are. It needs to be stopped.

My post was a response to FOG.

How do you plan to stop it? Ban Muslim immigration? Ethnically/Religously cleanse Canada?

Why do you have to make it about Browny? What these men did is illegal. What does it matter what color or religion they are? Or what their motive is, as if there's a better and a worse motive for raping and grooming girls. Enforce the law, that's it, no matter who the perp is.

[andyt]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

andyt andyt:

Bigotry is bigotry, no matter if you want to quibble about terms. To condemn all Muslims is racist as the term is understood by anybody with an ounce of sense.

Anybody with an ounce of intelligence understands full well that "Muslim" is not a race.
If an atheist condemns all Christians, does that make them racist as well? Of course not. You can't be racist against a religion. But if said atheist started to condemn all Muslims, suddenly that's "racist". What a load of codswallop.

At worst, what F-Dog and others (including myself) are guilty of is religious bigotry and with good reason. Islam is not compatible with any other religion or form of govt. It is definitely not compatible with Western ideals.

Take a good look at some the European countries. There are large Muslim enclaves in various cities where the laws of country they are in mean absolutely NOTHING!

Yet despite a country like Sweden, which is far more socially progressive than Canada, having major issues with Muslims, Muslim gangs and enclaves, we still have idiots here in Canada assuring us that it won't happen here. Well, there's only one way to make sure it doesn't happen here and pretending it won't isn't the solution.

So religious bigotry is OK or somehow better than ethnic bigotry? How so? "You are scum because you're brown" that's terrible, "you are scum because you're Muslim," that's OK?

And my question still stands. You feel fine cleansing a country of all people of a certain religion, because it's not racist to do so? The Muslims are here already. We can't bar them from immigrating based on religion under our current view of civil rights. It would be a major shakeup for our country to change that, and not in a good way. So fume on about the MUslims, secure in your knowledge you're not racist, but it won't address the problem.

[andyt]

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

The "grooming" thing is a new concept for me and as I look more deeply into it, I am thoroughly appalled. We haven't had that scourge visit us yet. I thought that is was some sort of tabloid sensationalism thing. This is a serious threat.

Maybe look into it a bit deeper and realize grooming is done by most pimps in one fashion or another, not just Muslims. This has been with us since before there were any Muslims in the country.

[N_Fiddledog]

andyt andyt:

Maybe look into it a bit deeper and realize grooming is done by most pimps in one fashion or another, not just Muslims. This has been with us since before there were any Muslims in the country.

OK - second time - what makes Muslim grooming gangs specific and unique to Muslims is grooming brings girls into the Muslim community to perpetrate the offence. It is perpetrated by Muslims against non-muslims. It is widespread and obvious in the UK. Other sorts of rape Jihad can be seen throughout the world and history.

On the what to do. I gave you a link. You didn't read it. You keep insisting people are advising some sort of genocide or mass eviction of second generation Muslims.

No. What is required is mass de-radicalization, and prevention of further external infection from the radical side of the dualistic ideology.

You aren't going to click the link I gave you, so I'll just copy and paste a few suggestions they made on possible methods of de-radicalization.

$1:

[*]AFDI calls for immediate investigation into foreign mosque funding in the West and for new legislation making foreign funding of mosques in non-Muslim nations illegal.

AFDI calls for surveillance of mosques and regular inspections of mosques in the U.S. and other non-Muslim nations to look for pro-violence materials. Any mosque advocating jihad or any aspects of Shariah that conflict with constitutional freedoms and protections should be closed.

AFDI calls for curriculum and Islam-related materials in textbooks and museums to describe the Islamic doctrine and history accurately, including its violent doctrines and 1,400-year war against unbelievers.

AFDI calls for a halt of foreign aid to Islamic nations with Shariah-based constitutions and/or governments.

AFDI denounces the use of Shariah law in any Western court or nation.

AFDI advocates deportation hearings against non-citizens who promote jihad in our nations.

AFDI calls for an immediate halt of immigration by Muslims into nations that do not currently have a Muslim majority population.

AFDI calls for laws providing that anyone seeking citizenship in the United States should be asked if he or she supports Shariah law, and investigated for ties to pro-Shariah groups. If so, citizenship should not be granted.

AFDI calls for the cancellation of citizenship or permanent residency status for anyone who leaves the country of his residence to travel for the purpose of engaging in jihad activity, and for the refusal of re-entry into his country of residence after that jihad activity.

AFDI calls for careful investigation of Muslims resident in non-Muslim countries who have obtained naturalized citizenship or permanent residency status, to ensure that that status was not obtained under false pretenses.

Basically, we don't take any crap. We deal with the perps and the radicalizers that convince them such sorts of behaviors are endorsed by religion, or culture firmly, swiftly. We eradicate the enemy ideology.

As I said before though, the first thing that must be done is our society must be helped to stop ignoring the obvious. There is an enemy and it is ideological, but still very dangerous.