[andyt]

You just keep making the same circular arguments. If that's the case, stand down the soldiers completely, have them return to base and at least try to guard the munitions. Sending them out to be targets without being able to fight back, that's just asking way too much of them. Hell, you could go do that instead, doesn't take any training.

[BRAH]

[Zipperfish]

andyt andyt:

You just keep making the same circular arguments. If that's the case, stand down the soldiers completely, have them return to base and at least try to guard the munitions. Sending them out to be targets without being able to fight back, that's just asking way too much of them. Hell, you could go do that instead, doesn't take any training.

So could you. Send some pix from the front!

[andyt]

YOu should go first, since you seem to believe the soldiers should be out there to get shot at but not shoot back. Once you've demonstrated the success of that strategy by taking one for the team, then we can talk about me.

[PostFactum]

andyt andyt:

You just keep making the same circular arguments. If that's the case, stand down the soldiers completely, have them return to base and at least try to guard the munitions. Sending them out to be targets without being able to fight back, that's just asking way too much of them. Hell, you could go do that instead, doesn't take any training.

Ok, once again, like Shepherd tells to his kids in class -
Why Ukraine is not shooting this morons like rabbits right now? Because:
1) Rioters are Ukrainian citizens paid by Russia (500$ per riot)
2) Rioters are controlled and supported by Russian forces and FSB agents
3) In Ukrainian government, especially on East territories part of powerfull people supported by Russia, are pro Russians and part of them are even Russian FSB agents, even in Ukrainian SBU.
4) Rioters put women and kids in front of them, when they are taking government buildings.
5) Russians pay big money to Ukrainian militians and police who give up and give to Russians their weapons.
6) Russian propaganda scares all East Ukraine telling them about NATO (90% of East Ukrainians even can't explain what it is, but most are convinced that it's worse than evil), European gays and other horrible imaginated stories. I even heared from few different people from East Ukraine a fairy tale that West Ukrainians are building gas cameras for East Ukrainians for eliminating them.
7) Russia promises a rivers of gold and moutains of silver after annex. In Crimea it was the same and they still don't have it. Russians are every day saying that they are just comming tomorrow.
8 ) Russians put 40k army and are convincing that if we will shoot rioters they'll make it move.
9) During this years, Yanukovich and his team were stealing everything that can be stolen. So for now we have army with sticks, and a very large zero in country budget.
10) Russians pay to the government of East and they give up and do nothing, they don't listen what says Kyiv, they listen Moscow.
11) Those part of East who don't want to be annexed are frightened, people who start speak on public that Russia is shit and we must avoid it, suddenly dissapear or are killed. Especially if it is famous people.
12) Russians make theater provocations and cheap performanse like: Unflamable paper in car, Kyiv student - USA spy and others. West don't believe, Ukraine don't and giver proof that it is fake. But on East they believe, because rioters occupied TV stations and newspapers so they don't see any other information.
13) Ukraine doesn't have permanent in democracy meaning government, government is temporary so we need elections to know those people who will switch on the light in the fog and show the way where we go.
14) Because that corruption in Russia is in many times larger than in Ukraine, heads of government on East think that they'll be living like gods. If in Ukraine working for government is cheap and gives you less money, if you take bribe it's anyway possible to get to prison. In Russia governments workers receive much more bribes and very rarely they are put in prison.
15) Cabinets of Ukrainian government are full of Russian spies like bee nest is full of bees.

[Winnipegger]

andyt, yes any country has an ethical right to do everything you said. When armed insurgents take control of a government building, you send in the police. If police can't do it, send the SWAT team. If they can't, then send in the army. When the army goes in, expect weaposn fire, people will die. That's ideal, that's what a country does. But that ignores current reality. Russia is trying to bait Ukraine to do exactly that. If Ukraine does do that, then Russia will come in. According to The Mail on March 13 Russia had poised on the Ukraine border:
80,000 soldiers
270 tanks
180 armoured vehicles
90 helicopters
380 artillary pieces
140 military aircraft
19 ships

[saturn_656]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cf-18s- ... -1.2625727

Canadian fighters are heading to Romania.

[Zipperfish]

andyt andyt:

YOu should go first, since you seem to believe the soldiers should be out there to get shot at but not shoot back. Once you've demonstrated the success of that strategy by taking one for the team, then we can talk about me.

No, I don't believe that at all. Not my nature. I believe if you don't fight for your freedom, your freedom will not last long. If it comes to war involving Canada in some capacity--well, my fighting days are behind me, but I could see myself contributing in some way. I've done it before.

27.

[Zipperfish]

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

andyt, yes any country has an ethical right to do everything you said. When armed insurgents take control of a government building, you send in the police. If police can't do it, send the SWAT team. If they can't, then send in the army. When the army goes in, expect weaposn fire, people will die. That's ideal, that's what a country does. But that ignores current reality. Russia is trying to bait Ukraine to do exactly that. If Ukraine does do that, then Russia will come in. According to The Mail on March 13 Russia had poised on the Ukraine border:
80,000 soldiers
270 tanks
180 armoured vehicles
90 helicopters
380 artillary pieces
140 military aircraft
19 ships

If Russia is going to invade on such a flimsy pretext, then they are going to invade, period. Then we should assume invasion is a foregone conclusion, and take it from there.

[andyt]

Exactly. do people really think Russia can be finessed into not invading? If the soldiers are ordered not to return fire even when fired upon, don't send them out in first place. Hell, even our UN missions we at least allowed our soldiers to defend themselves.

Supposedly 70% of east Ukrainian people support the govt. But when they hold a peaceful demonstration, the riot police run away and the demonstrators are attacked by goons. If that many people really support Ukraine, not Russia, time for them to stand up and show it. If that number is true, there is no way Putin will allow a peaceful election to take place in east Ukraine. These people are going to get swallowed up by Russia all the while moaning that resistance is futile. I actually wonder if support for Russia is stronger in East Ukraine than people want to admit, and that is why the soldiers won't fight and the people won't rise up the way they did in Kiev.

[ShepherdsDog]

$1:

Ok, once again, like Shepherd tells to his kids in class -

80 % of the people I teach are adults, unlike Andy. The only cure for a troll like Andy is direct exposure to sunlight.

[saturn_656]

Telegraph is reporting that the US has intercepted communications between the insurgents and Moscow.

Intercepted messages are reported to confirm that they are receiving their orders from Moscow.

If that's the case, they should light the fuckers up. Now.

[stratos]

27

[saturn_656]

stratos stratos:

27

That number have some cosmic significance?

[stratos]

Zipperfish knows LOL