[Winnipegger]

andyt andyt:

Why does't Ukraine act against these thugs?

They are. The Ukrainian president ordered the military to take back occupied buildings. They did succeed in recapturing some buildings and removing some road blocks, but failed with others. Three Ukrainian special forces soldiers were sent to capture those who kidnaped a Ukrainian politicians. Unfortunately pro-Russian insurgents captured those three soldiers.

Ukraine crisis: city hall in southeast cleared of pro-Russia protesters

Ukraine crisis: Putin threatens Kyiv after military operation kills 2

[andyt]

Can't understand how the entire Ukrainian army can fail to take some buildings from the insurgents. Or how at one point a car drove up to a Ukrainian army position, shot a few dead and drove off, apparently without fire being returned. The excuse was that the shooters have guns. Don't the Ukrainians soldiers. Just how restrictive are their ROE if they don't return fire when they take casualties?

[PostFactum]

andyt andyt:

Can't understand how the entire Ukrainian army can fail to take some buildings from the insurgents. Or how at one point a car drove up to a Ukrainian army position, shot a few dead and drove off, apparently without fire being returned. The excuse was that the shooters have guns. Don't the Ukrainians soldiers. Just how restrictive are their ROE if they don't return fire when they take casualties?

Middle payment in Ukrainian army per month 250 $. There is a Russian nest of CIA agents, inside of government in Ukraine.

[andyt]

Russian nest of CIA? What does that mean? The US is helping Russia take over Ukraine?

The thing is, if somebody is shooting at you and killing some of you, wouldn't you shoot back? What did they do, run away? I think you're making too many excuses for the Ukrainian army here. Sure, going up against the Russian army would just be suicide, but the Ukrainian army against some of these insurgents, surely they should prevail. I mean these insurgents took some armored vehicles away from the soldiers. Come on now. How does that happen. I have to say I don't get what's going on here, but I'm not impressed.

[PostFactum]

andyt andyt:

Russian nest of CIA? What does that mean? The US is helping Russia take over Ukraine?

The thing is, if somebody is shooting at you and killing some of you, wouldn't you shoot back? What did they do, run away? I think you're making too many excuses for the Ukrainian army here. Sure, going up against the Russian army would just be suicide, but the Ukrainian army against some of these insurgents, surely they should prevail. I mean these insurgents took some armored vehicles away from the soldiers. Come on now. How does that happen. I have to say I don't get what's going on here, but I'm not impressed.

I said it for example, I'm not sure that you know what is SBU. To shoot back means war, they wwant reason to begin it till elections.

[andyt]

So they just let themselves get killed and their arms taken away from them - bullshit.

I don't know what is SBU, but it doesn't explain how the CIA is helping the Russians in Ukraine?

[PostFactum]

andyt andyt:

So they just let themselves get killed and their arms taken away from them - bullshit.

I don't know what is SBU, but it doesn't explain how the CIA is helping the Russians in Ukraine?

I'm tired of you, you're good man, but you don't want to think. I can't help you with this.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

andyt andyt:

So they just let themselves get killed and their arms taken away from them - bullshit.

I don't know what is SBU, but it doesn't explain how the CIA is helping the Russians in Ukraine?

He said CIA because he didn't know if you knew what the SBU was. I believe PF meant to say was "...the Russian equivalent of the CIA...", not that the CIA was helping Russia.

[andyt]

Ah, that splains it. So can we accord this the same amount of tin foil as Russian claims that the Ukrainian govt is made up of neo-nazis? And how would these SBU agents have so much influence they can direct Ukrainian troops to allow themselves to be killed without fighting back and let their personnel carriers be taken from them? I can understand not wanting to provoke an all out civil war, but what's (not) happening here seems to be well beyond that. If the troops aren't going to engage, even when shot at, have them go back to their bases and at least try to keep the munitions from falling into insurgent hands.

[PostFactum]

andyt andyt:

Ah, that splains it. So can we accord this the same amount of tin foil as Russian claims that the Ukrainian govt is made up of neo-nazis? And how would these SBU agents have so much influence they can direct Ukrainian troops to allow themselves to be killed without fighting back and let their personnel carriers be taken from them? I can understand not wanting to provoke an all out civil war, but what's (not) happening here seems to be well beyond that. If the troops aren't going to engage, even when shot at, have them go back to their bases and at least try to keep the munitions from falling into insurgent hands.

Can you understand that Russians use simple Ukrainian citizens, they look like simple people and do the shit like partizans. There is no front line like on simple war. We can't shoot those idiots, because they are our idiots. They are selling mother for 500$.

[PostFactum]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

andyt andyt:

So they just let themselves get killed and their arms taken away from them - bullshit.

I don't know what is SBU, but it doesn't explain how the CIA is helping the Russians in Ukraine?

He said CIA because he didn't know if you knew what the SBU was. I believe PF meant to say was "...the Russian equivalent of the CIA...", not that the CIA was helping Russia.

Exactly.

[DrCaleb]

andyt andyt:

So can we accord this the same amount of tin foil as Russian claims that the Ukrainian govt is made up of neo-nazis?

Accord what the tin foil? That Russia sends agents into foreign governments to stir up trouble. No need for foil, if it actually happens.

And there are neo-nazis in the Ukrainian Government. They just don't call the shots like Russia claims.

andyt andyt:

And how would these SBU agents have so much influence they can direct Ukrainian troops to allow themselves to be killed without fighting back and let their personnel carriers be taken from them?

Because they are good at what they do? Why did so many Ukrainian troops swap uniforms for Russian ones so easily in Crimea? Were they really loyal Ukrainian troops to begin with?

andyt andyt:

I can understand not wanting to provoke an all out civil war, but what's (not) happening here seems to be well beyond that. If the troops aren't going to engage, even when shot at, have them go back to their bases and at least try to keep the munitions from falling into insurgent hands.

Ukraine is playing their cards close to their chest till after the elections. Then we'll see a different attitude. Once real sanctions are in place that start to hurt Putin instead of working for him, then you'll see bullets fly.

Look how the Soviets retreated from Afghanistan when mothers no longer had the stomach to send their sons to die.

[andyt]

PostFactum PostFactum:

andyt andyt:

Ah, that splains it. So can we accord this the same amount of tin foil as Russian claims that the Ukrainian govt is made up of neo-nazis? And how would these SBU agents have so much influence they can direct Ukrainian troops to allow themselves to be killed without fighting back and let their personnel carriers be taken from them? I can understand not wanting to provoke an all out civil war, but what's (not) happening here seems to be well beyond that. If the troops aren't going to engage, even when shot at, have them go back to their bases and at least try to keep the munitions from falling into insurgent hands.

Can you understand that Russians use simple Ukrainian citizens, they look like simple people and do the shit like partizans. There is no front line like on simple war. We can't shoot those idiots, because they are our idiots. They are selling mother for 500$.

When the idiots drive up to a military position in a car, wearing balaclavas and start shooting your soldiers and stealing your weapons, yes, you can start shooting them. If they occupy a building using weapons, yes you can start shooting them. When they put up illegal roadblocks, using the force of weapons to enforce them, yes you can start shooting them. Citizens or no.

[andyt]

Sorry, when the insurgents are actually killing soldiers and seizing their arms, it's time to shoot back.

If the Russians have so much control of the Ukrainian govt that they can direct Ukrainian soldiers to let themselves be shot, then all is lost anyway.

So have I got it straight, the neo-nazis in the Uk govt don't call the shots, but the Russian agents do?

You may want to tell Martin the shocking news there are neo-nazis in the Ukrainian govt, because he doesn't believe me when I say it. I'm not even sure PF believes it.

[PostFactum]

andyt andyt:

Sorry, when the insurgents are actually killing soldiers and seizing their arms, it's time to shoot back.

If the Russians have so much control of the Ukrainian govt that they can direct Ukrainian soldiers to let themselves be shot, then all is lost anyway.

So have I got it straight, the neo-nazis in the Uk govt don't call the shots, but the Russian agents do?

Do you know what means 40k army in full equipment, belonged from country with nuclear weapons on your border who have mentally ill president?