[Public_Domain]

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

The people of the Ukraine have been living, literally, under a Russian boot since 1917, were the subject of starvation during Stalin's collectivization and they want nothing more to do with them.

Dude, it's way WAY WAYYYY longer than just a hundred years.

This can be traced back to well before communists and capitalists...
Half a millennium of Ukrainian association with Russia at the very least.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cossack_Hetmanate

That and the Polish.

[BRAH]

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

BRAH BRAH:

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

This has nothing to do with the United States at all. They need not be involved. No one wants them to be involved. This is about Russia, the Ukraine and the E.U..

That's wishful thinkinge because Canada and the United States are being dragged into this.

How so? We haven't done anything tangible except talk-talk, so far. It's hard to imagine what we could do anyway, except for the usual menu of sanctions. This really isn't our fight.

If the E.U. fancies itself as an emergent superpower, it's time that they walked the walk. We've already watched them sit in in stunned silence as Yugoslavia broke up. It's time for them to clean up their own back yard.

Look how the west was dragged into Syria going head to head with Russia the same thing will happen here because this is about real estate and trying to stop Russia from expanding their influence, welcome to the new Cold War.

[N_Fiddledog]

This is just nuts...

[stratos]

[saturn_656]

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

BRAH BRAH:

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

This has nothing to do with the United States at all. They need not be involved. No one wants them to be involved. This is about Russia, the Ukraine and the E.U..

That's wishful thinkinge because Canada and the United States are being dragged into this.

How so? We haven't done anything tangible except talk-talk, so far. It's hard to imagine what we could do anyway, except for the usual menu of sanctions. This really isn't our fight.

If the E.U. fancies itself as an emergent superpower, it's time that they walked the walk. We've already watched them sit in in stunned silence as Yugoslavia broke up. It's time for them to clean up their own back yard.

You leave it up to the EU and the opposition is finished. Period. There isn't a doubt in my mind that Russia would have troops in every city experiencing unrest before the EU could even agree on political support to the opposition.

[martin14]

Not much of a cease fire...

Police snipers taking potshots at protestors... it is NSFW.






Maidan is also asking for foreigners to come to the hospitals, to act as observers
if the police come to kidnap protesters in the hospital.


The protestors have also taken their own prisoners, about 50 police have surrendered.

35 dead so far today, and it's lunchtime over there.


Getting seriously not funny.

[Jabberwalker]

You leave it up to the EU and the opposition is finished. Period. There isn't a doubt in my mind that Russia would have troops in every city experiencing unrest before the EU could even agree on political support to the opposition.


...and the Americans can do what, exactly?

[stratos]

Urban Warfare Shatters Ukraine Truce, Seven More Killed

http://www.nbcnews.com/#/storyline/ukra ... led-n34276

1st Vid is about US polotics vis a vis the Ukraine

2nd Vid is about the riot going on and the break down of the truce.

This is very sad for me. Kiev is one of the places I always have wanted to go. It was one of the destinations Snorkmaiden and I spoke about visiting. To see this going on saddens my heart. If peace does not happen soon there I am affraid that the Military will become involved and what side they would take I've no idea.

[DrCaleb]

stratos stratos:

If peace does not happen soon there I am affraid that the Military will become involved and what side they would take I've no idea.

I've seen some of western Ukraine, but I too would like to see Kyiv and Sevastopol one day.

The military will do what their Commander in Chief, Viktor Yanukovych, says to do. Which is why a countries Head of State and Head of Government should never be the same person and why I always rail against anyone who wants to dissolve Canada's Monarchy.

[saturn_656]

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

You leave it up to the EU and the opposition is finished. Period. There isn't a doubt in my mind that Russia would have troops in every city experiencing unrest before the EU could even agree on political support to the opposition.


...and the Americans can do what, exactly?

What does it matter? Closer integration with Europe is being sought, not with the US.

[saturn_656]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

stratos stratos:

If peace does not happen soon there I am affraid that the Military will become involved and what side they would take I've no idea.

I've seen some of western Ukraine, but I too would like to see Kyiv and Sevastopol one day.

The military will do what their Commander in Chief, Viktor Yanukovych, says to do. Which is why a countries Head of State and Head of Government should never be the same person and why I always rail against anyone who wants to dissolve Canada's Monarchy.

The military may not comply with directives to use force against the people. A high level army officer was recently sacked for saying so.

[DrCaleb]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

stratos stratos:

If peace does not happen soon there I am affraid that the Military will become involved and what side they would take I've no idea.

I've seen some of western Ukraine, but I too would like to see Kyiv and Sevastopol one day.

The military will do what their Commander in Chief, Viktor Yanukovych, says to do. Which is why a countries Head of State and Head of Government should never be the same person and why I always rail against anyone who wants to dissolve Canada's Monarchy.

The military may not comply with directives to use force against the people. A high level army officer was recently sacked for saying so.

Egggzactly! And replaced with one who will follow the orders of Dear Leader, who undoubtedly stressed his view on all subordinates and identified ones not willing to follow those orders.

[saturn_656]

It's doubtful the one guy they sacked was the only one. Many more surely exist, some could be smoked out, but others are almost certainly lying low.

The division apparent in the citizenry may also run deep in the military. Attempting to involve them may start something that no one could stop.

[Jabberwalker]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

You leave it up to the EU and the opposition is finished. Period. There isn't a doubt in my mind that Russia would have troops in every city experiencing unrest before the EU could even agree on political support to the opposition.


...and the Americans can do what, exactly?

What does it matter? Closer integration with Europe is being sought, not with the US.

that is precisely my point, as well. this is not North America's fight ... at least not yet.

[martin14]

70 dead, hundreds in hospital, sun has gone down in Kyiv.

$1:

BBC Monitoring have been following Ukrainian media closely throughout the day. They say Ukraine's main state-run TV channel UT1 appears to have changed its tone of coverage of the protests. It has shown a live relay from the main protest camp in Independence Square without the usual critical commentary. "This is something incredible! More and more people are arriving!" the channel's correspondent said in an unusual outburst.

The mayor of Kyiv has bailed on Yanukovich, left his party.

$1:

Councillors in Ukraine's western Transcarpathia Region have voted to declare the region "free of Yanukovych rule"

That's the area closest to the borders of Slovakia and Hungary.


Reports of lineups for fuel across Ukraine.