[andyt]

It gets difficult. We apply different standards to others than ourselves.

Peronally, I don't think there's appetite in Quebec for real separation. They just want to use it the threat of it to get as much out of us as they can, but are intelligent enough to realized they'd be fucked if they really did it. I think a lot of the old grievances has lessened too.

A PQ win would boost JT's fortunes tho.

[Jabberwalker]

We should think carefully about how we view this sort of referenda, elsewhere. We're going to see the first one soon dealing with the devolution of the United Kingdom.

[saturn_656]

http://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/220211 ... er-crimea/

Obama: Vladimir, you annex Crimea and there are going to be costs, and not just the costs I already talked about. There will be additional costs! You read me? Serious costs!

Putin: Put it on my tab.

[saturn_656]

http://m.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26613567

In response to the invasion and pending annexation of Crimea the EU is sanctioning a grand total of 21 officials. This is backed up by the Americans sanctioning 11 officials (most or all of whom are probably also on the EU list).

Since Emperor Putin is not impacted, not a single fuck was given in Russia this morning.

[BartSimpson]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

Since Emperor Putin is not impacted, not a single fuck was given in Russia this morning.

Damn. This should be the headline of every newspaper in the West today.

Well said!

[saturn_656]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

saturn_656 saturn_656:

Since Emperor Putin is not impacted, not a single fuck was given in Russia this morning.

Damn. This should be the headline of every newspaper in the West today.

Well said!

I'm sure someone will do an Op-Ed that says much the same thing, if they haven't already.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/ ... XO20140317

The Rouble is up, and Russian stock indexes are up this morning.

The markets are far from fazed.

[BartSimpson]

Looks like all of Obama's butt-kissing with Putin is paying off:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar ... 078c&hl=en

$1:

State TV says Russia could turn US to 'radioactive ash'

Moscow — A leading anchor on Russian state television on Sunday described Russia as the only country capable of turning the United States into "radioactive ash", in an incendiary comment at the height of tensions over the Crimea referendum.

"Russia is the only country in the world realistically capable of turning the United States into radioactive ash," anchor Dmitry Kiselyov said on his weekly news show on state-controlled Rossiya 1 television.

Kiselyov made the comment to support his argument that the United States and President Barack Obama were living in fear of Russia led by President Vladimir Putin amid the Ukraine crisis.

His programme was broadcast as the first exit polls were being published showing an overwhelming majority of Crimeans voting to leave Ukraine and join Russia.

He stood in his studio in front of a gigantic image of a mushroom cloud produced after a nuclear attack, with the words "into radioactive ash".

"Americans themselves consider Putin to be a stronger leader than Obama," he added, pointing to opinion polls which then popped up on the screen.

"Why is Obama phoning Putin all the time and talking to him for hours on end?" he asked.

Kiselyov has earned a reputation as one of Russia's most provocative television news hosts, in particularly with his often blatantly homophobic remarks.

But he is also hugely influential with his weekly news show broadcast at Sunday evening prime time.

Putin last year appointed Kiselyov head of the new Russia Today news agency that is to replace the soon to be liquidated RIA Novosti news agency with the aim of better promoting Russia's official position.

Kiselyov also made great play of Russia's so-called "dead hand" capability to fire nuclear-capable intercontinental missiles automatically in the case of attack.

The system, also known as Perimeter, was in use during the Cold War but its use in post-Soviet Russia is not officially confirmed.

But Kiselyov appeared to claim it remained active, giving Russia the chance to strike back even if its main command positions were taken out in a strike by the West.

"Even if people in all our command posts after an enemy atomic attack cannot be contacted, the system will automatically fire our missiles from mines and submarines in the right direction," he added.

The channel's graphic showed the line of a Russian missile heading towards the Pacific coast and the United States.

Pro-opposition news site slon.ru did not mince its words in describing the implications of Kiselyov's comments.

"This evening... Dmitry Kiselyov threatened the United States with a nuclear strike if the conflict over Crimea deepens," it said.

Russia and the United States are reducing their Cold War missile and nuclear warhead arsenals under the terms of the New Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty that entered into force in 2011.

[westmanguy]

Russians never got over the emasculation after the collapse of the Soviet Union. They very much view the former Eastern European Soviet states as part of their "sphere of influence". Its naive to assert this is a desire to reinstitute the USSR. The Russian federation is post-partisan. Its an oligarchy controlled by Putin and his thugs. They're all fine and dandy for "independence" in their former Soviet bloc countries if the leaders and governments there are pro-Moscow.

I don't have much faith in Obama. I'm impressed with Harper's response, but Canada is too small a country to make a major difference. And frankly, I don't have much faith in the EU to show some teeth with their sanctions as they're too reliant on Russian energy imports and dealing with their own fiscal messes.

However, this is an instance where Obama's "reset" tactic has utterly failed. We're back to the era of realpolitik. Putin's view of the world is a very realist one. Obama's international relations liberalism shift doesn't jive with the reality of Russia. Putin will only respond to strength and weakness. I'm afraid, I don't think diplomacy is an option here. Putin smells weakness among Western ranks. He's willing to wait us out and continue his invasion into the Eastern part of Ukraine now.

This won't and shouldn't go to war. However, Western leaders need to quickly realize this is a throwback to realism and the only way to get Putin to back down is by showing a lot of strength, resilience, and a united front with much MUCH tougher sanctions.

And yes, it will hurt us/the EU a bit in the short term. However, winter is almost over and there's no reasons we can't co-ordinate a plan to get natural gas resources over their to the EU, and take the steps necessary to truly isolate Russia. We need to make their economy suffer - badly.

Today's sanctions were a good first step, but the real test is going to be what the West does in the coming days and weeks as Russia inevitably moves further into the Eastern oblasts of Ukraine. We already have that one oblast getting ready for referendum 2.0.

I might be wrong, but I honestly don't think Putin will stop. He truly believes we don't have the resolve to follow through. He's likely right at this point. However, surely we've learned lessons from history and know we can't let this man continue his slow incursions into the sovereignty of independent states.

Yes Western business in Russia will suffer. Yes, the EU could face an energy shortage from Russia turning off the taps if the sanctions get some more teeth. However, Russia has to think long and hard about cutting of oil and natural gas exports too. If the Kremlin restricts their energy exports yes this will hurt the EU, but it will hurt them too. They're not going to get money for that product. Also, the sheer action of turning off the taps will - in the long term - result in the EU working towards rapidly moving away from Russian energy dependence.

We're in definite unchartered territory here, but I'm hoping the EU/US/Canada continue to coordinate and we roll out staggered and increasing sanctions in unison with each other. Every further action by Russia should be meant by a further escalation in sanctions by the West.

[Jabberwalker]

Russians never got over the emasculation after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

The male population literally drank themselves to death after that. The life expectancy of a male in Russia (2013) is 64.3 years, female is 76.1 year. Emasculation is exactly what happened to them which is why they will so easily follow "Macho man", whether he does anything for them, or not.

[ShepherdsDog]

Russia turns off the gas, then Europe turns off the cash. Russian fields and pipelines are set up to move everything west to their markets in Europe. Hardball involves two teams

[BartSimpson]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

Russia turns off the gas, then Europe turns off the cash. Russian fields and pipelines are set up to move everything west to their markets in Europe. Hardball involves two teams

Russia is playing 'hardball' over Ukraine. Meanwhile the West is more worried about who can and can't march in a St. Patrick's Day parade.

Putin, of course, is watching.

[ShepherdsDog]

I'm still waiting for him to re-establish the Romanov Dynasty and declare it a 'constitutional' monarchy.....and then discover some familial tie. All the imperial trappings are there, there's a strong Russian Orthodox presence in everyday Russian life....he's a practicing member and has been since the days it was frowned upon....nationalism...Russia as the Third Rome belief

[BartSimpson]

Ukraine is refusing to cede Crimea and is ordering their forces to remain in their Crimean bases and the government has ordered all Ukrainian forces to prepare for war.

It's about to get all sparkly.

Oh, and somebody somewhere has a 777 that might be thrown into the fray as a flying bomb.

[saturn_656]

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/03/17 ... sanctions/

Russian Deputy Prime Minister mocks Obama.

$1:

But one of the top Russian officials hit by sanctions openly mocked Obama, claiming the president’s so-called ‘tough’ sanctions were some kind of ‘joke’.

“Comrade Obama, what should those who have neither accounts nor property abroad do? Have you not thought about it?” Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin tweeted. “I think the decree of the President of the United States was written by some joker.”

[BartSimpson]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/03/17/crimean-republic-declares-itself-sovereign-nation-as-european-union-stumbles-over-severity-of-sanctions/

Russian Deputy Prime Minister mocks Obama.

$1:

But one of the top Russian officials hit by sanctions openly mocked Obama, claiming the president’s so-called ‘tough’ sanctions were some kind of ‘joke’.

“Comrade Obama, what should those who have neither accounts nor property abroad do? Have you not thought about it?” Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin tweeted. “I think the decree of the President of the United States was written by some joker.”

Can't wait for some idiot to accuse Rogozin of being racist because he dared to mock Obama.