[DrCaleb]

$1:

Ukraine says it partly destroyed Russian armoured column

Ukraine said its forces had attacked and partly destroyed a Russian armoured column that entered Ukrainian territory overnight, a firefight that, if confirmed, would mark a dramatic worsening of the conflict.

Russia’s government denied its forces had crossed into Ukraine, and accused Kiev of trying to sabotage deliveries of aid, but European capitals accused the Kremlin of escalating the fighting.

Kiev and its Western allies have in the past repeatedly accused Russia of arming pro-Moscow separatist rebels in eastern Ukraine, and of sending undercover military units onto Ukrainian soil.

But if it is able for the first time to show the remains of Russian military vehicles captured or destroyed on its territory, that would give extra force to Kiev’s allegations – and possibly spark a new round of sanctions against the Kremlin.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/wor ... e20073912/

And of course, RT has it's own spin on the incident:

$1:

Aid convoy to Ukraine faces disruption, may be attacked - Russia
Moscow has information that the convoy delivering humanitarian aid to eastern Ukraine may be attacked by Kiev’s forces, with the “punitive” Aidar Battalion planning to mine the road that the vehicles will use, the Russian Foreign Ministry says.

On Friday, Moscow accused Ukraine of attempting to disrupt the humanitarian aid convoy now that the preparations for its delivery have reached their final stages and all key issues have been agreed upon.

“We draw attention to the sharp intensification of military actions by Ukrainian forces with the obvious goal to block the route, agreed upon with Kiev, of the humanitarian convoy from the Russia-Ukraine border to Lugansk,” the Foreign Ministry said in a statement.

In Moscow’s view, all this gives the impression that there are people both in Ukraine and abroad who are willing to disrupt the humanitarian mission, even “at the cost of new casualties and destruction.”

“Those nurturing such criminal plans are taking huge responsibility for their consequences,” the ministry said.

Russia sent a convoy of 280 trucks carrying humanitarian aid – such as medical supplies, food, including baby food, sleeping bags and other basic necessities – to conflict-torn southeastern Ukraine on Tuesday. The convoy is currently stuck near the Ukrainian border, and is awaiting final approval from Kiev before moving forward.

http://rt.com/news/180664-ukraine-russi ... an-convoy/

[BartSimpson]

It's a darn shame that Ukraine doesn't have nukes.

[andyt]

Well good on the Ukrainians for this success. They've really smartened up since the early days when they just allowed themselves to be walked all over. Wonder what made the change - was is just a legitimate govt with a take charge leader? I understand the Ukrainian army was in dismal shape at the start of this conflict, and now they are sending raw draftees, no training, to fight, yet somehow they've turned themselves around and are kicking the rebel's asses.

Let's hope that if clear evidence of Russian invasion is at hand, the west finds it's balls to have a stiff response (sorry, no pun intended), although I'm not sure this is worth Nato going to war over. But sanctions that actually bite for sure, possibly even arming Ukraine.

[BartSimpson]

Ukraine has reportedly attacked the Russian armored column that crossed into Ukraine yesterday:

http://online.wsj.com/articles/ukraine- ... 8?mod=mktw

$1:

Ukraine Says Russian Armored Vehicles Destroyed

MOSCOW—Ukrainian artillery destroyed a large part of a column of armored vehicles that had been seen entering Ukraine from Russia, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said Friday.

[Zipperfish]

If they can produce definitive evidence of Russian armaments on Ukraine soil, it will certainly kick the conflict up a notch. Not that it is surprising. it's obvious Putin wants the Ukraine and is willing to stake it all to get it.

[DrCaleb]

In the Micheal Brown shooting thread it was noted that the US military is giving away all sorts of heavy equipment. It's use by civilian law enforcement seems to be causing more problems than it's solving.

Seems to me the Ukraine could use some new kit.

[ShepherdsDog]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

If they can produce definitive evidence of Russian armaments on Ukraine soil, it will certainly kick the conflict up a notch. Not that it is surprising. it's obvious Putin wants the Ukraine and is willing to stake it all to get it.

The Russians view Ukraine the same way that the Serbs view Kosovo. It was where the Russian identity first began and flourished. It's the same as Jerusalem for the Jews and Mecca and Medina for the Arab Muslims

[DrCaleb]

$1:

Alleged Russian 'Incursion' Into Ukraine is Pure Fantasy - Defense Ministry

MOSCOW, August 15 (RIA Novosti) - The Russian Defense Ministry denied on Friday allegations of Russian incursion into eastern Ukraine, calling the claims a 'fantasy' that is not worth discussing.

“No Russian military column crossed the Russian-Ukrainian border, either at night or during the day,” the ministry’s spokesman, Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov, told RIA Novosti.

http://en.ria.ru/military_news/20140815 ... fense.html

We'll know tomorrow if they publish pictures of the smashed armour.

[peck420]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

We'll know tomorrow if they publish pictures of the smashed armour.

Sadly, I don't think that that would be any more enlightening.

Both sides have more than enough derelict Russian equipment to stage and event like that...hell, both have places were it may already look like that (they both have weapons testing ranges).

I suspect that we will get just as much clarity on this as we did with Flight MH17.

[Zipperfish]

peck420 peck420:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

We'll know tomorrow if they publish pictures of the smashed armour.

Sadly, I don't think that that would be any more enlightening.

Both sides have more than enough derelict Russian equipment to stage and event like that...hell, both have places were it may already look like that (they both have weapons testing ranges).

I suspect that we will get just as much clarity on this as we did with Flight MH17.

yeah you're right.

Interesting how too much information has exactly the same as too little. Old Chinese Proverb: "Man with two watches never know time." Also, man who go to sleep with itchy bum wake up with stinky finger.

[Goober911]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/wor ... e20087692/

Ukrainian rebels are receiving new military equipment and troops trained in Russia, and will launch a major counter-offensive against government forces, a separatist leader said in a video released on Saturday.

The four-month conflict in eastern Ukraine has reached a critical phase, with Kiev and Western governments watching nervously to see if Russia will intervene in support of the increasingly besieged rebels - an intention Moscow denies.

[Jabberwalker]

... the slippery slope, eh? We're part of this war, now.

[Winnipegger]

From the Globe and Mail article posted by Goober911:

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“Why should we flee? People are still coming and filling our ranks. Those who have lost their houses to Ukrainian shelling, what else would they do but fight back?,” said a fighter who gave his name as Communist.

My recommendation is Ukraine offer to rebuild any and all homes and business destroyed by artillery, either shelling or Grad rockets. Now that Rebels have tanks, include damage from those. Citizens of east Ukraine must see the Ukrainian government as their friend and saviour.

I would also suggest leaving a path for rebels to escape to Russia. But carefully monitor those paths. If anything comes from Russia, destroy it.

I expect the Russian excuse is those tanks and APCs are not Russian, but sold to rebels. After all, they don't have an arms embargo with the rebels. They're probably given, not sold. But as long as they're operated by rebels and not Russian military personnel, even if they're trained in Russia, then Russia can claim it isn't an invasion. As long as Russia isn't invading, then NATO can't send troops. But if Russia is giving heavy weapons and training to rebels, then NATO can do the same for Ukraine.

A laser system to blind heat-seeking missiles won't work on BUK missiles, because they're radar guided. What model of tanks did the rebels get? I'm sure Mi-24 helicopters can take them out. Did they get any BUK missile systems? If they did, and if we can confirm Russia is sending current model heavy equipment, then couldn't NATO give Ukraine a couple Wild Weasels? The F-4G is old, but the last one with two seats. F-16C is single seat, would take significant training to operate. F-4 aircraft have been exported. Canada doesn't have any, but would the US export a F-4G or two?

Or navy EA-6B Prowler? Prowler isn't as old as Phantom, but even more crew: one pilot plus 3 Electronic Countermeasures Officers.

[Winnipegger]

CBC: Pro-Russian rebels shoot down fighter jet, Ukraine says

$1:

Pilot ejected, was taken to a secure place, Ukrainian military spokesman says

Ukraine's government said Sunday that separatists shot down a Ukrainian fighter plane after army troops entered deep inside a rebel-controlled city in the east in what could prove a breakthrough development in the four-month long conflict.

Ukraine's national security council said government forces captured a district police station in Luhansk after bitter clashes in the Velika Vergunka neighbourhood.

[Winnipegger]

Shoulder launched missile? Igla uses IR.

Northrop Grumman: AN/AAQ-24(V) DIRCM (Directional Infrared Countermeasure)

Elbit Systems: Directed IR Countermeasures

Israel tests SkyShield/C-MUSIC against live threats