[stratos]

Oh man I remember that commercial

[Winnipegger]

PostFactum PostFactum:

5. Russians don't want to give back money of Ukrainian banks in Crimea.

Is this Ukrainian currency? How much is paper money? Can the Ukrainian central bank just invalidate that currency, and allocate an equal amount to the Ukrainian central bank? If it's numbers in a computer, that should be easy. If it's paper currency, it's more involved. If it's foreign currency, then you have to beg the country that controls that currency to do it.

[Goober911]

http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/205114.html

http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/204939.html

Ukraine's Acting Foreign Minister Andriy Deschytsia has said that Russia has scheduled the holding of military exercises for May 25, the day of presidential elections in Ukraine.

"The Russian side, unfortunately, as you can see, is making decisions that do not contribute to the stabilization of the situation in the eastern regions of Ukraine. In particular, today it was announced that military exercises would be held on election day in Ukraine on May 25," he told reporters on Thursday.

Deschytsia said that Russian military exercises near Ukraine's border "will not help stabilize the situation in the eastern regions."

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/arti ... 00329.html

Crimean authorities have drawn up an order prohibiting any large scale public meetings on the peninsula until June 6, a move that could result in the cancellation of a planned Crimean Tatar event remembering Stalin's deportation of the ethnic group.

The order, carrying the name of Crimea's acting head Sergei Aksyonov and published Friday on Facebook, says that the decision was connected to violence in south-eastern Ukraine and aimed at eliminating possible extremist provocations.

A meeting had been planned for May 18, Crimean Tatars' traditional day of remembrance for those deported by Soviet leader Josef Stalin for their alleged collaboration with Germany in World War II. Many of the 200,000 deportees died on their way to into exile in Central Asia.

The Muslim minority group was eventually allowed to return to the peninsula in the 1980s.

The relationship between the Crimean Tatars and the current authorities in Simferopol is a troubled one, with many having boycotted the March referendum on joining Russia.

[andyt]

$1:

Despite Canada's aggressive tone with Russia amid the ongoing crisis in Ukraine, it appears the federal government is not putting all of its money where its mouth is — at least, not when it comes to sanctions.

Canada has generally been in lockstep with the United States and European Union when it comes to exacting punishments on those deemed responsible for fomenting the unrest in Ukraine. In that regard, the federal government has imposed sanctions on nearly 100 Russian and Ukrainian individuals and businesses since the crisis erupted.

But at least three Russian businessmen with close ties to President Vladimir Putin have curiously been excluded from Canada's sanctions list, calling into question the government's tough stance over Ukraine.

While Ottawa was developing its sanctions policy, records show it was being lobbied by top officials from Bombardier — one of Canada's major industrial players.

Bombardier CEO Pierre Beaudoin reported six meetings in March with government officials, according to Canada's official registry of lobbyists.

The company last year signed a preliminary deal to sell 100 short-haul aircraft in Russia and agreed to set up an assembly line for the planes in that country, in partnership with Rostec. Bombardier also has other interests in Russia, including a long-standing joint venture in its rail business.


The revelations contrast with Prime Minister Stephen Harper's earlier assurances that business interests would not interfere with Canada's foreign policy.

"Within the context of Canadian foreign policy, we will do what we can to maximize the commercial opportunities for our firms," Harper said while meeting with fellow G7 leaders in March.

"But we will not shape our foreign policy to commercial interests. And when it comes to, you know, a global crisis — a security crisis like the Ukraine, Russia situation — you know, business people have to be aware that there may be risks to them."

But the government was tight-lipped on why it chose not to impose sanctions on the Russian businessmen. In fact, it didn't answer the question at all.

The usual. Tough talk, no action.

[BartSimpson]

andyt andyt:

The usual. Tough talk, no action.

Am I mistaken or are you calling for action?

[andyt]

Not your kind of action. Not by NATO. Just sanctions with teeth in them. We should at least match what Europe and the US are doing, and they're not doing enough, IMO. They need to be willing to take a bit of pain in order to cause real pain to Putin.

I did however dare to suggest that the Ukrainian military might want to stand up to the insurgents and was called a chickenhawk for it.

[Goober911]

andyt andyt:

Not your kind of action. Not by NATO. Just sanctions with teeth in them. We should at least match what Europe and the US are doing, and they're not doing enough, IMO. They need to be willing to take a bit of pain in order to cause real pain to Putin.

I did however dare to suggest that the Ukrainian military might want to stand up to the insurgents and was called a chickenhawk for it.

Sanctions do not work. How many times, how many examples before you understand the only ones that pay are at the bottom of the social order.
Look to the Iraq sanctions, and get some insight.
Chickenhawk, no i would consider another.
You have since I have been a member seen to be wrong. To insult when a reply is requested.
You have been after PF since I have been here.
His info and opinion is and has been correct more often than not. In the high 90's
How have you fared?
Not so well is what I see, and like the wheel of fortune, you appear to have a wheel of ever changing options and actions.

[Gunnair]

Goober911 Goober911:

andyt andyt:

Not your kind of action. Not by NATO. Just sanctions with teeth in them. We should at least match what Europe and the US are doing, and they're not doing enough, IMO. They need to be willing to take a bit of pain in order to cause real pain to Putin.

I did however dare to suggest that the Ukrainian military might want to stand up to the insurgents and was called a chickenhawk for it.

Sanctions do not work. How many times, how many examples before you understand the only ones that pay are at the bottom of the social order.
Look to the Iraq sanctions, and get some insight.
Chickenhawk, no i would consider another.
You have since I have been a member seen to be wrong. To insult when a reply is requested.
You have been after PF since I have been here.
His info and opinion is and has been correct more often than not. In the high 90's
How have you fared?
Not so well is what I see, and like the wheel of fortune, you appear to have a wheel of ever changing options and actions.

Chicken hawk? What's with the obnoxious label?

Are you tossing that at anyone leaning towards military intervention in some way that is also not serving?

Hope you don't change your mind. You'd be a chicken hawk then.

[andyt]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Goober911 Goober911:

andyt andyt:

Not your kind of action. Not by NATO. Just sanctions with teeth in them. We should at least match what Europe and the US are doing, and they're not doing enough, IMO. They need to be willing to take a bit of pain in order to cause real pain to Putin.

I did however dare to suggest that the Ukrainian military might want to stand up to the insurgents and was called a chickenhawk for it.

Sanctions do not work. How many times, how many examples before you understand the only ones that pay are at the bottom of the social order.
Look to the Iraq sanctions, and get some insight.
Chickenhawk, no i would consider another.
You have since I have been a member seen to be wrong. To insult when a reply is requested.
You have been after PF since I have been here.
His info and opinion is and has been correct more often than not. In the high 90's
How have you fared?
Not so well is what I see, and like the wheel of fortune, you appear to have a wheel of ever changing options and actions.

Chicken hawk? What's with the obnoxious label?

Are you tossing that at anyone leaning towards military intervention in some way that is also not serving?

Hope you don't change your mind. You'd be a chicken hawk then.

No, Chickenhawk is 2Cdo's thing. He delights in just flying in and dropping shit, like a seagull, without ever contributing to the conversation. Apparently only people who have served are allowed to suggest the military might actually do what it was set up to do. At least he admitted he's an asshole, so that's something.

Goober has decided I'm wrong for suggesting the Ukrainian army might want to confront the insurgents. They're now doing that, but somehow PF was right and I was wrong. And I'm wrong for suggesting the west might want to enact tougher sanctions. So I'm not sure where that leaves him - no sanctions, no military action by Ukraine. Thumbsucking I guess.

PF got all upset when I suggested that the army might want to actually do something besides let themselves be shot without responding, as they did initially. It's gone downhill from there, and he's now got a little acolyte in Goober.

[PostFactum]

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

PostFactum PostFactum:

5. Russians don't want to give back money of Ukrainian banks in Crimea.

Is this Ukrainian currency? How much is paper money? Can the Ukrainian central bank just invalidate that currency, and allocate an equal amount to the Ukrainian central bank? If it's numbers in a computer, that should be easy. If it's paper currency, it's more involved. If it's foreign currency, then you have to beg the country that controls that currency to do it.

It is paper currency in $ and grn. 16 mlrd - money of banks, 20 mlrd - money of people. It can't, they don't react for asks.

[PostFactum]

andyt andyt:

No, Chickenhawk is 2Cdo's thing. He delights in just flying in and dropping shit, like a seagull, without ever contributing to the conversation. Apparently only people who have served are allowed to suggest the military might actually do what it was set up to do. At least he admitted he's an asshole, so that's something.

Goober has decided I'm wrong for suggesting the Ukrainian army might want to confront the insurgents. They're now doing that, but somehow PF was right and I was wrong. And I'm wrong for suggesting the west might want to enact tougher sanctions. So I'm not sure where that leaves him - no sanctions, no military action by Ukraine. Thumbsucking I guess.

PF got all upset when I suggested that the army might want to actually do something besides let themselves be shot without responding, as they did initially. It's gone downhill from there, and he's now got a little acolyte in Goober.

Read my upper posts, I can't write my same arguments for your same bullshit every time I see your crap.

[Jabberwalker]

Attacking with the Ukrainian army is exactly what the Russians want them to do. They would be playing by the Russian script. The Ukraine has shown great restraint and, so far, the worst has not happened. It is an extremely difficult balancing act that they are engaged in but there is evidence that it is working. Consider the occupiers to be dangerous criminals rather than a military foe.

Everything may change after the election, though.

[PostFactum]

So Today:
1. Crimean Tatars won't be meeting for anniversary of their deportation from Crimea. Putin said no, Russians out tanks, army and police in the centers of Crimean big cities to prevent Tatar meeting.
2. Terrorists are surrounded and fall back to the centers of captured cities. Russian media says that hundreds of Ukrainian soldiers are dead. (Actually 24 are dead).
3. Governor of Lugansk republic was crossing Ukrainian-Russian border. Border police captured him, arrived 300 terrorists and took him back without any shot. Looks like someone received bribe.
4. Separatists block regional election commissions for not making president election on territory that they control.
5. Bank of Russia lost 1/3 of it's money.
6. Separatists stop cars, trucks and robe them, take everything that is useful for them.
7. Russians have a machine-guns and rocket launchers on every block post.
8. Terrorists capture and rob homes of inhabitants, make there fire point, one woman was raped.

[andyt]

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

Attacking with the Ukrainian army is exactly what the Russians want them to do. They would be playing by the Russian script. The Ukraine has shown great restraint and, so far, the worst has not happened. It is an extremely difficult balancing act that they are engaged in but there is evidence that it is working. Consider the occupiers to be dangerous criminals rather than a military foe.

Everything may change after the election, though.

Nobody is talking about Ukraine attacking Russia. Unfortunately Ukraine is caught in a trap. If they attack the insurgents Russia may roll tanks. If Ukraine stands idly by, the insurgents just win without Russia rolling tanks. Good for Ukraine for choosing to not just stand idly by, as they did in the beginning. It appears Russia doesn't actually want to invade Ukaine, they just want to destabilize it enough to make it form a looser union that Russia can have more control over.

We don't just let dangerous criminals do what they want either, and use force of arms when they resist arrest.

[Gunnair]

andyt andyt:

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

Attacking with the Ukrainian army is exactly what the Russians want them to do. They would be playing by the Russian script. The Ukraine has shown great restraint and, so far, the worst has not happened. It is an extremely difficult balancing act that they are engaged in but there is evidence that it is working. Consider the occupiers to be dangerous criminals rather than a military foe.

Everything may change after the election, though.

Nobody is talking about Ukraine attacking Russia. Unfortunately Ukraine is caught in a trap. If they attack the insurgents Russia may roll tanks. If Ukraine stands idly by, the insurgents just win without Russia rolling tanks. Good for Ukraine for choosing to not just stand idly by, as they did in the beginning. It appears Russia doesn't actually want to invade Ukaine, they just want to destabilize it enough to make it form a looser union that Russia can have more control over.

We don't just let dangerous criminals do what they want either, and use force of arms when they resist arrest.

Unless you're in Nevada.