[Goober911]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/wor ... e18660057/

Gunmen from the newly proclaimed People’s Republic of Donetsk have taken another step towards snapping their region off from the rest of Ukraine, seizing control of a key Central Election Commission office and declaring that the country’s May 25 parliamentary and presidential vote will not be held here.


https://www.vdare.com/articles/demograp ... -in-the-us

In regions like Crimea, Donestk, and Luhansk, more than two-thirds consider Russian to be their native tongue. (Map courtesy CBS News)



http://geovisualist.com/2013/12/09/regi ... n-ukraine/

Why would Yanukovych refuse to sign the EU agreement after previously promoting it, knowing that it would make a lot of Ukrainians unhappy? Well, the standard answer is that Russia put enormous pressure on Ukraine, including threatening economic retribution. And that’s true. But to grasp why Yakukovych felt comfortable making this decision, and why Russia has such an outsized influence on the country, you have to understand how Ukraine is ethnically, culturally, and linguistically divided by geography.

[Winnipegger]

Crimea is definately Russian (red), and the western border of the southern most part of Odessa oblast has a lot of Bulgarians (purple). But every oblast other than Crimea is still primarilly Ukrainian (blue).

[PostFactum]

That fact that they are ethnic Russians doesn't allow them to kill people, rob everything that can be robbed, put in fire Ukrainian flag and ruin country at all. Would like to add that this maps are made by polls, so add here washed by Russia heads of our citizens. EU and US sanctions are making result, slow but they work. Putin is scared, so he will think twice about invading his troops.

[Winnipegger]

Putin has already said he won't invade. Donetsk and Lugansk have already asked Russia to join, and Putin said no. All that is encouraging. Putin has taken Crimea; that's what he wanted.

[PostFactum]

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

Putin has already said he won't invade. Donetsk and Lugansk have already asked Russia to join, and Putin said no. All that is encouraging. Putin has taken Crimea; that's what he wanted.

He didn't say no, he just waits.

[ShepherdsDog]

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

Putin has already said he won't invade. Donetsk and Lugansk have already asked Russia to join, and Putin said no. All that is encouraging. Putin has taken Crimea; that's what he wanted.

OK Neville....

[PostFactum]

So today:
1. Putin's rating in Russia has reached new record - 85,9 %.
2. People are changing in anti terrorist command center, army generals who have Iraq war experience arrived.
3. Gas transfer to Ukraine from Russia will be working on previous-pay system.
4. Donbas Antrazit factory is captured ny terrorists.
5. Separatists in Slovyansk are surrounded in school by Ukrainian forces.
6. Base of Separatists near Kramatorsk was destroyed, 3 terrorists are captured.
7. Block points near Slovyansk are destroyed, terrorists on 5 km territory around TV station are eliminated.

How terrorists kidnap people in Luhansk.

[andyt]

PostFactum PostFactum:

So today:
1. Putin's rating in Russia has reached new record - 85,9 %.
2. People are changing in anti terrorist command center, army generals who have Iraq war experience arrived.
3. Gas transfer to Ukraine from Russia will be working on previous-pay system.
4. Donbas Antrazit factory is captured ny terrorists.
5. Separatists in Slovyansk are surrounded in school by Ukrainian forces.
6. Base of Separatists near Kramatorsk was destroyed, 3 terrorists are captured.
7. Block points near Slovyansk are destroyed, terrorists on 5 km territory around TV station are eliminated.

1. I thought Putin's rating was dropping already?
2. Why were these generals not on hand before?


Are you using terrorist and separatist as interchangeable? I haven't seen anything that can be described as terrorism. Usually people say insurgents.

[PostFactum]

andyt andyt:

PostFactum PostFactum:

So today:
1. Putin's rating in Russia has reached new record - 85,9 %.
2. People are changing in anti terrorist command center, army generals who have Iraq war experience arrived.
3. Gas transfer to Ukraine from Russia will be working on previous-pay system.
4. Donbas Antrazit factory is captured ny terrorists.
5. Separatists in Slovyansk are surrounded in school by Ukrainian forces.
6. Base of Separatists near Kramatorsk was destroyed, 3 terrorists are captured.
7. Block points near Slovyansk are destroyed, terrorists on 5 km territory around TV station are eliminated.

1. I thought Putin's rating was dropping already?
2. Why were these generals not on hand before?


Are you using terrorist and separatist as interchangeable? I haven't seen anything that can be described as terrorism. Usually people say insurgents.

Usually they are not interchangeable, but in this situation terrorists and separatists are the same guys. So I use both of this terms. Putin's rating is high yet, the same was in 2008 when he attacked Aphasia and South Osetia, wait few months. About Generals I don't know, I'm not working in Ukrainian Ministry of defense. If you don't see there terrorism, I'm surprised because you have few journalists who are as you say "actually on the ground". Go read definition of terrorism.

[andyt]

If you call any act of violence you don't agree with terrorism, it loses its meaning. I've seen no car bombs or suicide bombers. No mass attacks against civilians. You want to use the pejorative term because you don't agree with them. What I've read about from journalists on the ground is a violent separatist movement or an insurgency. But I guess the sides want to hurl invective at each other. You call them terrorists, they call you fascists. All it does is stoke up more hatred.

[DrCaleb]

andyt andyt:

If you call any act of violence you don't agree with terrorism, it loses its meaning. I've seen no car bombs or suicide bombers. No mass attacks against civilians.

Those are the acts that have taken the original meaning of 'terrorist' away. 'To promote acts of violence, or to engage in acts of violence for the purpose of political change' was the agreed definition before 9/11.

Which is exactly what they are doing by taking over police stations and voting offices.

[andyt]

$1:

In the international community, terrorism has no legally binding, criminal law definition.[1][2] Common definitions of terrorism refer only to those violent acts that are intended to create fear (terror); are perpetrated for a religious, political, or ideological goal; and deliberately target or disregard the safety of non-combatants (e.g., military personnel in peacetime or civilians).

The word "terrorism" is politically loaded and emotionally charged,[5] and this greatly compounds the difficulty of providing a precise definition. Studies have found over 100 definitions of "terrorism".[6][7] In some cases, the same group may be described as "freedom fighters" by its supporters and considered to be terrorists by its opponents.[8] The concept of terrorism may be controversial as it is often used by state authorities (and individuals with access to state support) to delegitimize political or other opponents,[9] and potentially legitimize the state's own use of armed force against opponents (such use of force may be described as "terror" by opponents of the state).

At the same time, the reverse may also take place when states perpetrate or are accused of perpetrating state terrorism. The usage of the term has a controversial history, with individuals such as Nelson Mandela at one point also branded a terrorist.[11]

[stratos]

The two men who were caught at the train station with a bomb in a bag/back pack I would deem terrorists.

[PostFactum]

andyt andyt:

If you call any act of violence you don't agree with terrorism, it loses its meaning.

I'm not saying that terrorism is any kind of violence.

andyt andyt:

I've seen no car bombs or suicide bombers.

This is not terrorism that you see on middle East.

andyt andyt:

No mass attacks against civilians.

Really, how will you call this?

andyt andyt:

You want to use the pejorative term because you don't agree with them.

No, read upper.

andyt andyt:

What I've read about from journalists on the ground is a violent separatist movement or an insurgency. But I guess the sides want to hurl invective at each other. You call them terrorists, they call you fascists. All it does is stoke up more hatred.

I was giving you a Russian media list, they are better than your guys. Especially for you, definition of terrorism from Wikipedia:

$1:

Criminal acts intended or calculated to provoke a state of terror in the general public, a group of persons or particular persons for political purposes are in any circumstance unjustifiable, whatever the considerations of a political, philosophical, ideological, racial, ethnic, religious or any other nature that may be invoked to justify them.

All that they do is definitely terrorism. I can give proof to Russians that they are terrorists, now give me the proof that I'm fascist.

[andyt]

stratos stratos:

The two men who were caught at the train station with a bomb in a bag/back pack I would deem terrorists.

Yep, that sounds more like it.