[stratos]

andyt andyt:

Well you should register your displeasure at this rash act by Ukrainian troops somehow. Maybe if many people feel like you, you could do this:

Kent State photo?

[PostFactum]

stratos stratos:

andyt andyt:

Well you should register your displeasure at this rash act by Ukrainian troops somehow. Maybe if many people feel like you, you could do this:

Kent State photo?

Yes.

[stratos]

Funny how later these same flower children rushed towards the National Guards. Keep in mind this was done after days of taunting and harassing of the National Guards by the oh so peaceful flower children. It was a planned for of harassment done by the flower children. They used the sound of the class bell to stage the rush/charge. Unlike what the movie shows these kids were not running to class, they were actually heading parallel to the buildings and headed strait for the National Guardsmen who were NOT in front of nor near a campus building being used for classes.

[DrCaleb]

stratos stratos:

Funny how later these same flower children rushed towards the National Guards. Keep in mind this was done after days of taunting and harassing of the National Guards by the oh so peaceful flower children. It was a planned for of harassment done by the flower children. They used the sound of the class bell to stage the rush/charge. Unlike what the movie shows these kids were not running to class, they were actually heading parallel to the buildings and headed strait for the National Guardsmen who were NOT in front of nor near a campus building being used for classes.

Either way, armed troops vs unarmed students is not cool. But that's what much of the Eastern Ukraine is facing.

[stratos]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

stratos stratos:

Funny how later these same flower children rushed towards the National Guards. Keep in mind this was done after days of taunting and harassing of the National Guards by the oh so peaceful flower children. It was a planned for of harassment done by the flower children. They used the sound of the class bell to stage the rush/charge. Unlike what the movie shows these kids were not running to class, they were actually heading parallel to the buildings and headed strait for the National Guardsmen who were NOT in front of nor near a campus building being used for classes.

Either way, armed troops vs unarmed students is not cool. But that's what much of the Eastern Ukraine is facing.

One word responds perfectly to both your sentences. EXACTLY.

[Zipperfish]

stratos stratos:

Funny how later these same flower children rushed towards the National Guards. Keep in mind this was done after days of taunting and harassing of the National Guards by the oh so peaceful flower children. It was a planned for of harassment done by the flower children. They used the sound of the class bell to stage the rush/charge. Unlike what the movie shows these kids were not running to class, they were actually heading parallel to the buildings and headed strait for the National Guardsmen who were NOT in front of nor near a campus building being used for classes.

Not so much. One of the students killed was ROTC. She had nothing to do with the protests. Shot through the throat with an M-1 at 130 yards.

[Goober911]

andyt andyt:

You'rs too. I suggest you learn more English, if you can't make out that I've never argued for the Russian position here. But then maybe just any position different than your you take as an attack, egged on by uncle martin.

I asked why the Ukrainian troops were not acting. You had a 100 different reasons why they shouldn't and couldn't. Now that they are acting, are you writing letters to your representatives warning them to stand down the troops? How in any way you see that as a pro-Russia position is beyond me.

Same with all the other numbnuts here who agreed Ukraine should not deploy the troops. Now that they have, not a peep from them.

Nothing wrong with his English. Perhaps your comprehension is in doubt.
Ah ............ Nope it is not in doubt.
Stratos took your points and you to the cleaners on a number of occasions.
You are all over the map. A wind blowing in every direction at once.

[Goober911]

PostFactum PostFactum:

Goober911 Goober911:

Yes it is - A sinkhole for money. Now has Ukraine lost access to the gas deposits in the Black Sea?

It's not sinkhole, he will just not pay and region will degrade. Yes, we lost those gas.

I was referring to how much development is needed. Let Putin spend tens of billions.

[stratos]

We can debate back and forth the cause/reason/results of who is to be blamed and or not blamed for the Kent State massacre on another thread. I got drawn into a tangent form the true issue of this thread. Dr.Caleb was good enough to re-route it back on track. Lets try and keep this as much about the Ukraine as we can.

Not a doge per say Zipper nor am ignoring the validity of your point. This is just not the thread for it.

[martin14]

Goober911 Goober911:

andyt andyt:

You'rs too.

Nothing wrong with his English. Perhaps your comprehension is in doubt.
Ah ............ Nope it is not in doubt.
Stratos took your points and you to the cleaners on a number of occasions.
You are all over the map. A wind blowing in every direction at once.

[Zipperfish]

stratos stratos:

Not a doge per say Zipper nor am ignoring the validity of your point. This is just not the thread for it.

Fair 'nuff!

[Goober911]

andyt andyt:

You'rs too. I suggest you learn more English, if you can't make out that I've never argued for the Russian position here. But then maybe just any position different than your you take as an attack, egged on by uncle martin.

I asked why the Ukrainian troops were not acting. You had a 100 different reasons why they shouldn't and couldn't. Now that they are acting, are you writing letters to your representatives warning them to stand down the troops? How in any way you see that as a pro-Russia position is beyond me.

Same with all the other numbnuts here who agreed Ukraine should not deploy the troops. Now that they have, not a peep from them.

Andy I admire how some people can nail things particulary with your own words.
So Grasshopper the lesson beginnith.

I liked it so much I went a huntin fer it.

In another place, Aether island this is what I call a

Followed up with a


From Stratos

stratos stratos:

$1:

The want more autonomy as region.

On the surface this sounds acceptable but many see this in the same light as the Crimea. They wanted more autonomy and they moment they got it a "vote" for leaving the Ukraine and become part of Russia happened.

$1:

Insurgents are not the population.

Glad we finally got that point across to you.

$1:

The rest carrying on doesn't mean they are pro-West, it just means they are not insurgents. When they're not taking armored cars away from the soldiers or bringing food to the insurgents, they are carrying on with normal life.

No these people are the local population (generally of Russian decent)who support the insurgents and or are part of the separatist movement. They are not as you say carrying on with normal life.

$1:

Those people do want change in how Ukraine is governed, they don't want to join Russia, they also want more freedom from being ruled by Kyiv, especially after the interim govt passed those anti-Russian laws.

These same people are the ones from above and their actions are the cause behind the anti-Russian laws

$1:

I know you and shep et all find it hard to keep this big confusing picture in mind, want to paint it all black and white, good and bad but it's not. It's a lot more complicated.

You're seeming to not even understand what Shep, myself and others are talking about, let alone who is who and what is what as I've pointed out in the above, proves how complicated it is and how much of the big picture you've failed to grasp. Thus it's not myself who is finding this to complicated but you. Thus many of us have been trying to make it easy for you to understand unfortunately even this attempt on our part has fallen upon deaf ears in your case.

$1:

What I don't understand, with the insurgents (remember that's just a small number, not everybody that is pro-russia is an insurgent)

Even here you've contradicted yourself, earlier you said that the insurgents were not the population (we are agreed on this) but now you are saying that some of the insurgents are not pro-Russian so who are these non population non pro-Russian insurgents you speak of. Where did they come from if not from the population and not part of the pro-Russian insurgent groups.

$1:

holding so little actual territory how they plan to hold a referendum unless the interim govt allows it or the civilians backing them go in the streets.

This has been a tactic for centuries where a small force will hold key population areas and political centers thus gaining a lot stronger political position then their numbers actually would account for. This is something that Sun Zhu's (sp) art of war talks about and it can be traced back even further to Ancient Egypt and some of the wars they fought. Probably can be traced back even further but non come to mind at the moment.

$1:

Seems to me this could get very ugly.

Not just you but just about everyone see's this as turning very ugly thus the pressure from the West on Russia to back off it's pressure via politics, rhetoric, insurgents and other means they have been using.

[Goober911]

How many have noted that PF is on the money more often than not?.

[stratos]

Goober911 Goober911:

How many have noted that PF is on the money more often than not?.

In this case one would hope so seeing as how he lives in the Ukraine and has more direct feed into what is going on there then any of us do.

[Goober911]

stratos stratos:

Goober911 Goober911:

How many have noted that PF is on the money more often than not?.

In this case one would hope so seeing as how he lives in the Ukraine and has more direct feed into what is going on there then any of us do.

Knowing the history, the regions, the people, things that correspondents often miss.
They are looking for the headline- the story that sell.