[PostFactum]

andyt andyt:

$1:

Ukraine crisis: National guardsmen fire into crowd

Ukrainian national guardsmen have opened fire on a crowd outside a town hall in eastern Ukraine and an official for the region's insurgents says there are fatalities.

Sunday's bloodshed in the town of Krasnoarmeisk occurred hours after dozens of guardsmen shut down voting in a referendum on sovereignty for the region.

An Associated Press photographer who witnessed the shooting said two people were seen lying unmoving on the ground and insurgent leader Denis Pushilin was quoted by the ITAR-Tass news agency as saying there were an unspecified number of deaths.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine-cr ... -1.2638607

Good find, I proud of you

[PostFactum]

They have voted 89% "yes" for Donezk republic

[andyt]

$1:

Recent poll data show a strong majority in the east favour remaining part of Ukraine, but that doesn't necessarily prefigure a "no" vote on a "people's republic." Many who were on the fence may have been swayed by last week's grisly confrontation in Odessa, where dozens of pro-Russians died when the building where they took shelter was firebombed by government backers.

Although Odessa is far away from the referendum regions, the violence reinforced the view of the government side as brutal and vengeful. Friday's violence in the Donetsk region city of Mariupol, in which at least seven people died in a clash between security forces and protesters, also adds to the tensions.

In any case, sovereignty opponents may choose to sit out the vote because of the intimidating atmosphere. And without international oversight, the vote count's accuracy will be highly debatable. Ukraine's acting president, Oleksandr Turchynov, warned in remarks published Saturday that seeking regional sovereignty would be "a step into the abyss."

What's next?

If the vote is "yes" and the insurgents push for incorporation into Russia, Moscow will face a dilemma. U.S. and EU sanctions already appear to be affecting the economy.

Russia would be leery of inducing more such punishment by annexing the regions. It would also be logistically more challenging: Crimea housed a large Russian military contingent at the Black Sea Fleet base and reinforcements were brought in quickly before Ukraine could respond. But Ukrainian forces are already fighting in the east.

However, Putin's assertion of Russia's alleged right to reclaim territories that it lost through historical "injustices," which he cited in justifying the annexation of Crimea, could end up making Russia feel obliged to add Luhansk and Donetsk to its territory.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine-cr ... -1.2638607

[Goober911]

andyt andyt:

$1:

Recent poll data show a strong majority in the east favour remaining part of Ukraine, but that doesn't necessarily prefigure a "no" vote on a "people's republic." Many who were on the fence may have been swayed by last week's grisly confrontation in Odessa, where dozens of pro-Russians died when the building where they took shelter was firebombed by government backers.

Although Odessa is far away from the referendum regions, the violence reinforced the view of the government side as brutal and vengeful. Friday's violence in the Donetsk region city of Mariupol, in which at least seven people died in a clash between security forces and protesters, also adds to the tensions.

In any case, sovereignty opponents may choose to sit out the vote because of the intimidating atmosphere. And without international oversight, the vote count's accuracy will be highly debatable. Ukraine's acting president, Oleksandr Turchynov, warned in remarks published Saturday that seeking regional sovereignty would be "a step into the abyss."

What's next?

If the vote is "yes" and the insurgents push for incorporation into Russia, Moscow will face a dilemma. U.S. and EU sanctions already appear to be affecting the economy.

Russia would be leery of inducing more such punishment by annexing the regions. It would also be logistically more challenging: Crimea housed a large Russian military contingent at the Black Sea Fleet base and reinforcements were brought in quickly before Ukraine could respond. But Ukrainian forces are already fighting in the east.

However, Putin's assertion of Russia's alleged right to reclaim territories that it lost through historical "injustices," which he cited in justifying the annexation of Crimea, could end up making Russia feel obliged to add Luhansk and Donetsk to its territory.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine-cr ... -1.2638607

Some more facts.
Try harder.
Oh yes, was the ballot fair, no intimidation. Unlikely as in impossible.

At one polling station at a school in DonetskU turnout was brisk in the first hour of voting. All voting slips that could be seen in the clear ballot boxes showed that autonomy had been selected.

Most opponents of sovereignty appeared likely to stay away from the polls rather than risk drawing attention to themselves.

[andyt]

ARe you arguing with the voices in your head?

[PostFactum]

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2014/05/victory_day_in_ukraine_and_crimea.html

[PostFactum]

Separatists officially say that they got 96% of votes.

[Jabberwalker]

They knew that outcome before they even started.

There is no free vote on Earth that would yield a 96% outcome. People are not like that unless it is a phoney vote.

[PostFactum]

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

They knew that outcome before they even started.

There is no free vote on Earth that would yield a 96% outcome. People are not like that unless it is a phoney vote.

This is like Crimea. They just made picture for Russian media.

[MeganC]

PostFactum PostFactum:

They have voted 89% "yes" for Donezk republic

I was expecting at least 189% of the people to support the new republic.

[Goober911]

andyt andyt:

ARe you arguing with the voices in your head?

Nope. Is that the best you can come up with.

[PostFactum]

So today:
1. Separatists are changing their main manager, since today main manager is called "Strelok".


2. Building of 911 service is captured by separatists in Donezk (They probably doesn't have European man look)
3. Terrorists attack border points on East Ukraine.
4. Referendum finished with 96% "Yes" for Donezk republic.
5. Terrorists are surrounded by Ukrainian forces in every place of their standing. Mariupol is almost free.
6. Russian journalist was kidnapped, they took his all valuable things and beat him. Shouting on him that they'll take him to FSB. When saw his Russian passport, switched him off and took back to hotel.
7. Putin is very happy because of referendum result. Lavrov too.

[andyt]

What I'm wondering is if Putin threatened invasion of East Ukraine just to stir up the anti-Kyiv crowd, but had no intention of following thru. This way everybody forgets about Crimea, done deal, and is just relieved that Putin didn't take East Ukraine as well. The anti-Kyiv people, meanwhile, he leaves out to dry, as finally Kyiv is taking steps to stop the insurgency, with the dire predictions of Russia invading if they do, as some on this forum were so sure would happen, not coming to pass.

[PostFactum]

andyt andyt:

What I'm wondering is if Putin threatened invasion of East Ukraine just to stir up the anti-Kyiv crowd, but had no intention of following thru. This way everybody forgets about Crimea, done deal, and is just relieved that Putin didn't take East Ukraine as well. The anti-Kyiv people, meanwhile, he leaves out to dry, as finally Kyiv is taking steps to stop the insurgency, with the dire predictions of Russia invading if they do, as some on this forum were so sure would happen, not coming to pass.

Hello, I see your morning begins not from tea and even not from toilet. Well, Putin failed in very bad situation for him, his rating was up after Crimea, now it fall down very fast. So he has 2 choices: invade - make rating up for short period, will lose money and resources. Not invade - lose rating right now.

[Goober911]

andyt andyt:

What I'm wondering is if Putin threatened invasion of East Ukraine just to stir up the anti-Kyiv crowd, but had no intention of following thru. This way everybody forgets about Crimea, done deal, and is just relieved that Putin didn't take East Ukraine as well. The anti-Kyiv people, meanwhile, he leaves out to dry, as finally Kyiv is taking steps to stop the insurgency, with the dire predictions of Russia invading if they do, as some on this forum were so sure would happen, not coming to pass.

Crimea is now part of Russia but the deal Putin did will have long term consequences for Russia & the economy.

Treaties with Russia re now worthless.