[Goober911]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

We had more chance of having a civil war over the Chunky Soup big fork spoon controversy

[Jabberwalker]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

We had more chance of having a civil war over the Chunky Soup big fork spoon controversy

That's thin, watery stew, not soup!

Auslancders.

[PostFactum]

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

Hey! I'm trying to tell PostFactum he's not alone. We understand and sympathize. To show how Canada resolved our trouble, and how Ukraine can learn from our experience. Pushing "we win, you lose" will only cause conflict. Finding understanding between all sides is how conflict is resolved. Those fighting want rights for the Russian language, and want more autonomy. Those fighting to keep Ukraine whole want a single nation. Both can be achieved, it doesn't have to be "we win, you lose".

Again from Canadian history, Quebec separtists still bring up the battle of the Plains of Abraham. That was a battle in 1759, between British forces and French. More than a century before Canada became a country. It was part of the extension into North America of the Seven Year's War. Quebec separtists are still resentful that they lost. So a military conflict is not the way to build a nation. You don't want that in Ukraine.

The reason Putin hasn't invaded is he doesn't want another Afghanistan. Statements like "You are right out to lunch here" are not helpful. To build a nation, there's no such thing as "win/lose". It's either win/win or lose/lose. Yes, you have to stop those who want to forge ballots. Yes, you have to re-capture occupied government buildings. But if you're respectful to those in eastern Ukraine who speak Russian, then fewer will fight against you.

Sir, you compare civilized separatists of Quebec with foreign Russian soldiers, ex prisoners, drug users and those who just want easy money in Ukraine. History of New World is very different from European, in Europe all neighbors were like mad dogs, trying to cut piece of each other in every good for that moment. In my personal opinion, second language in Ukraine - Russian, is the beginning of the end too. Our identification and rhythm of our life is our language. Two languages means: 1)more money(and we are already empty if to speak about money) 2. We become closer to Russia 3.Russian language speakers were never feeling uncomfortable in Ukraine. East already has inside documentation on Russian, law contract can be made on every language you want, you can speak in what you want. This language issue is just Russian play. First language, than religion, after that economy, than territory which they are trying to take right now.

[Winnipegger]

They are now, but not October 1970.
CBC backgrounder on FLQ

[Jabberwalker]

Well I was living there, in high school, in October 1970 and most of "them" were as shocked by the terrorism as "we" were. If the FLQ had much traction, the movement would have proliferated and spread and it did not. It ended with Paul Rose and the assassination of Pierre LaPorte.

It may have felt like "Us" and "Them" from Winnipeg but it did not from Montreal ... if you had half of a brain, anyway.
If anything, Trudeau overreacted for "symbolic" purposes.

[Goober911]

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

They are now, but not October 1970.
CBC backgrounder on FLQ

Did Canada have the Holodomor-Nope
Ukraine was conquered by Russia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of ... th_century
Ukraine first became independent with the Ukrainian War of Independence of 1917 to 1921, but the resulting Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic (in 1919 merged from the Ukrainian People's Republic and West Ukrainian People's Republic) was quickly subsumed in the Soviet Union. Galicia, South Bessarabia, Northern Bukovina, and Carpathian Ruthenia were added as a result of the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact and the Second World War. The Soviet famine of 1932–33 or Holodomor killed an estimated 6 to 8 million people in the Soviet Union, the majority of them in Ukraine.[26]

Nazi Germany with its allies invaded the Soviet Union in 1941. Many Ukrainians initially regarded the Wehrmacht soldiers as liberators from Soviet rule, while others formed a partisan movement. Some elements of the Ukrainian nationalist underground formed a Ukrainian Insurgent Army that fought both Soviet forces and the Nazi. Others collaborated with the Germans. In Volhynia, Ukrainian "fighters" commited a massacre against up to 100,000 Polish civilians.[27] Residual small groups of the UPA-partizans acted near the Polish and Soviet border as long as to the 1950s.[28]

[Winnipegger]

It wasn't Quebec vs Canada, it was Canadian vs Canadian. And that's what's happening in eastern Ukraine. Treat Russian speaking Ukrainians as just brothers, countrymen.

Canada solved it by declaring Marshal Law. Police had the right to detain anyone without a warrant, without charge, without any reason. That right was taken away real quick, but it was damn scary! And that was from someone in Winnipeg.

Treating people in eastern Ukraine as "them", as the enemy, will only cause them to fight back. Treat them with respect, as Ukrainians, and you take away their reason to fight.

[PostFactum]

Goober911 Goober911:

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

They are now, but not October 1970.
CBC backgrounder on FLQ

Did Canada have the Holodomor-Nope
Ukraine was conquered by Russia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of ... th_century
Ukraine first became independent with the Ukrainian War of Independence of 1917 to 1921, but the resulting Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic (in 1919 merged from the Ukrainian People's Republic and West Ukrainian People's Republic) was quickly subsumed in the Soviet Union. Galicia, South Bessarabia, Northern Bukovina, and Carpathian Ruthenia were added as a result of the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact and the Second World War. The Soviet famine of 1932–33 or Holodomor killed an estimated 6 to 8 million people in the Soviet Union, the majority of them in Ukraine.[26]

Nazi Germany with its allies invaded the Soviet Union in 1941. Many Ukrainians initially regarded the Wehrmacht soldiers as liberators from Soviet rule, while others formed a partisan movement. Some elements of the Ukrainian nationalist underground formed a Ukrainian Insurgent Army that fought both Soviet forces and the Nazi. Others collaborated with the Germans. In Volhynia, Ukrainian "fighters" commited a massacre against up to 100,000 Polish civilians.[27] Residual small groups of the UPA-partizans acted near the Polish and Soviet border as long as to the 1950s.[28]

This is Europe man, everyone has something to remember to each other. Germany was promising independence, Russians were invading their communism. Nazi armies were made in many European countries which were consisting with local inhabitants. Even in Russia, but when we remember this to them, they suddenly have amnesia attack.

[PostFactum]

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

Treating people in eastern Ukraine as "them", as the enemy, will only cause them to fight back. Treat them with respect, as Ukrainians, and you take away their reason to fight.

Russians will use them and send to the fuck. But the do not understood it yet.

[ShepherdsDog]

Third largest contingent of non German volunteers within the SS were Ukrainians....after the French.

[ShepherdsDog]

dp...wtf

[ShepherdsDog]

tp....wtf?

[Goober911]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

Third largest contingent of non German volunteers within the SS were Ukrainians....after the French.

And the Germans were initially welcomed in Ukraine and other countries that were under the heel of Russia.
Bosnian Muslims had 2 full divisions on the Russian front.

[Jabberwalker]

The Poles fought on both sides, as well.

It's a little too for us easy to judge. We weren't there.

[Goober911]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/11/world ... ref=europe