[Newsbot]

Title: Up in smoke? B.C. pot advocate says referendum laws �designed to fail' | CTV British Columbia News
Category: Law & Order
Posted By: Freakinoldguy
Date: 2013-12-07 09:04:04
Canadian

[Freakinoldguy]

Bullshit. If the referendum laws were designed to fail we'd still be paying the HST.

This sounds more like a case of any excuse in a storm especially after you've run you mouth about how much support you have and the reality turns out to be something totally different.

It is quite apparent that the people of BC aren't ready for the decriminalization of Marijuana let alone the complete legalization of it like some people would have us believe.

[Zipperfish]

I wouldn't draw that conclusion. Most people just don't care enough to sign. Most people probably don't care either way.

[Freakinoldguy]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

I wouldn't draw that conclusion. Most people just don't care enough to sign. Most people probably don't care either way.

If they don't care enough to sign, are in opposition to or don't care either way about something as innocuous as decriminalizing marijuana I think it's pretty indicative that the alleged large portion of the population that strongly supports legalization might just be a myth and most people are happy to keep the status quo for whatever reasons despite the polls that have been trotted out claiming otherwise.

Those polls could be more a case of the "Dewey Defeats Truman" syndrome rather than a reality.

[andyt]

One thing you're missing is that they petition has to get the required signatures in every riding, ie support has to be strong enough in every riding. Support is going to be concentrated in urban areas, Vancouver, Victoria, Gulf Islands. Other areas not so much. Hold a referendum, it would probably pass, but not with the bar that's held up. The HST was different, people are going to be much more activated by something they think costs them money, especially the devious way it was introduced. Everybody agrees that the referendum legislation is very tough to meet.

I'm not sure this was the way to go anyway. Sure it could be a foot in the door, but decrim doesn't really make sense to me. Go for full legalization. I guess we're going to have to wait until a larger number of US states go that route, especially if California does, then do the me too thing we like to do with US innovations.

[Freakinoldguy]

andyt andyt:

One thing you're missing is that they petition has to get the required signatures in every riding, ie support has to be strong enough in every riding. Support is going to be concentrated in urban areas, Vancouver, Victoria, Gulf Islands. Other areas not so much. Hold a referendum, it would probably pass, but not with the bar that's held up. The HST was different, people are going to be much more activated by something they think costs them money, especially the devious way it was introduced. Everybody agrees that the referendum legislation is very tough to meet.

I'm not sure this was the way to go anyway. Sure it could be a foot in the door, but decrim doesn't really make sense to me. Go for full legalization. I guess we're going to have to wait until a larger number of US states go that route, especially if California does, then do the me too thing we like to do with US innovations.

Sure they get support in some ridings an not in others but, then again so did the anti HST crowd and they had the same problems. It' the nature of the beast with referendums and is probably the only way to ensure fairness and equal representation so to use it as an excuse when some referendum's don't succeed marginalizes the intent.

If people won't vote for decriminalization what makes you think they'd go for legalization? Althought you're right about the the US being the key to the whole thing and unless they legalize marijuana at the Federal Level it's probably a moot point for us doing so before them.

[andyt]

It's not the referendum that didn't succeed, it's the petition to hold one. Referendums are done on a province wide basis, ie you could have all of Metro Vancouver vote for something, and it wouldn't matter how the rest of the province voted, it would pass. However to get the referendum to go, you have to have 10% of registered voters in each riding sign up - compare that to the much easier standards in the US(which has it's own problems, prob 13 for instance).

Nobody voted for or against anything. They just didn't sing up in enough numbers. Surprisingly the article said they had the most trouble in urban ridings - maybe the sheer number of signatures required. Also, people were worried this signing would affect their jobs or being able to go to the US. The referendum itself would be secret, but not signing the petition to have one. People who are against this measure would not sign the petition, so we know those who did were for it.

I'm pretty lukewarm on decrim, so this doesn't bother me. Truth be told, the only place I really worry about legalizing drugs is on this forum, it's not uppermost in my mind otherwise. As I've said before, I wish prohibition worked, I'd vote to ban all sorts of things, certainly at the top of the list would be cigs and booze. They do lots of harm.

[Freakinoldguy]

Doesn't matter where the signatures came from all they had to do was get 10% of the voters in each riding to sign and they failed to get even that.

I think their success in the rural areas was due more to the lower voter population than an actual shift of ideology from apathy or opposition to support. If you have 10 voters and one signs the petition it's 10% but if you have a hundred voters and only 9% sign the petition it fails, simple mathematics which means that their support in the urban areas was still likely larger than the rural ones and the only way we'd know the true level of support for their initiative would be to hold an open referendum with no requirement to get signatures, something that isn't likely to happen.

But on the plus side for Sensible BC is that at least they get the opportunity to try and have a referendum, something the other provinces don't even allow.

As it stands now, it's all about excuses since nobody likes to lose, especially when you assumed everyone else thought like you. So, unless they can come up with a better idea about getting their referendum issue put on the next election ballot they're pretty much dead in the water and will have to go back to the drawing board and try to garner more support from mainstream BC society.

[desertdude]

Hmmm...7 posts in a no thumbs up from the high priest of pot yet. Send out the rescue team.

[ShepherdsDog]

he be communin` wit Jah rights now.

[Curtman]

desertdude desertdude:

Hmmm...7 posts in a no thumbs up from the high priest of pot yet. Send out the rescue team.

Meh. I doubt its very easy to get people interested in prohibtion-lite when the age of regulation is upon us.

[herbie]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

Bullshit. If the referendum laws were designed to fail we'd still be paying the HST.

This sounds more like a case of any excuse in a storm especially after you've run you mouth about how much support you have and the reality turns out to be something totally different.

It is quite apparent that the people of BC aren't ready for the decriminalization of Marijuana let alone the complete legalization of it like some people would have us believe.

That was the ONLY one to make it through all the hoops....
but then agaon half of them are too damn useless to go out and vote in a real election and half the rest are so paranoid they're convinced "The Man" is collecting names to come bust them later.
I don't fit either group, so my name was the first on the sheet even though I haven't had a puff in half a dozen years or one for the decade before that. 10 to 1 the person collecting the petition sheets doesn't remember to turn them in....

[Freakinoldguy]

herbie herbie:

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

Bullshit. If the referendum laws were designed to fail we'd still be paying the HST.

This sounds more like a case of any excuse in a storm especially after you've run you mouth about how much support you have and the reality turns out to be something totally different.

It is quite apparent that the people of BC aren't ready for the decriminalization of Marijuana let alone the complete legalization of it like some people would have us believe.

That was the ONLY one to make it through all the hoops....
but then agaon half of them are too damn useless to go out and vote in a real election and half the rest are so paranoid they're convinced "The Man" is collecting names to come bust them later.
I don't fit either group, so my name was the first on the sheet even though I haven't had a puff in half a dozen years or one for the decade before that. 10 to 1 the person collecting the petition sheets doesn't remember to turn them in....

So by having the inmates run the asylum they scuttled any chance they had at success.

But you're probably right about most of it though. I know that one of the signature gatherers here was some female stoner who would have looked more comfortable doing Cheech and Chong than trying to get signatures from people who didn't run the local hemp shop.

I think alot of people, users or not were embarrassed by the people who were put forward as the face of this campaign and didn't want anything to do for the most part with alot of them.

[Benn]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

Bullshit. If the referendum laws were designed to fail we'd still be paying the HST.

Says it all right there. It does work, even in a 10% all riding system, when there is enough support or people who give a damn. Not caring to sign is just the same as saying I don't care to see a change when it comes to voting. If most people don't want a change then lets drop it, if most don't see it as an important issue then lets move on to real issues.

I'd nominate him for the sore loser award but he says he will keep fighting so I'll at least give him A for effort.

[herbie]

I saw the HST petition in almost every shop and gathering I went to during the campaign. I was offered the pot petition by a dirl who worked for me and saw ONE person outside the mall here ONCE during the campaign. Did not see anyone collecting at any of the major places in Prince George where 90% of the population here is.