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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:43 pm
 


EyeBrock EyeBrock:
Did you do that when Chretien prorogued Parliament to stop the Somalia Judicial Enquiry? Or the other three times he prorogued the House for various other partisan reasons?


I'm not Scape, but I think the only reason why people opposed to Harper's proroging of Parliament ignore Chretien's quadruple-proroging because he was the leader of Canada's "natural governing party" at the time, and hence free of scrutiny. Or so they like to think.





PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:47 pm
 


FieryVulpine FieryVulpine:
I'm not Scape, but I think the only reason why people opposed to Harper's proroging of Parliament ignore Chretien's quadruple-proroging because he was the leader of Canada's "natural governing party" at the time, and hence free of scrutiny. Or so they like to think.


I'm not Scape either... But shouldn't the people who promised us open and honest government do a little better than this?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:00 pm
 


It's pure partisan politics to criticise one leader over something your own leader did four times and then waffle on about honesty when your whole points and posts have been transparently and rabidly partisan.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:01 pm
 


Scape Scape:
EyeBrock EyeBrock:
Did you do that when Chretien prorogued Parliament to stop the Somalia Judicial Enquiry? Or the other three times he prorogued the House for various other partisan reasons?


No. 20 years ago I would not have written to anyone.


How about 7 or 8 years ago? Those were the two last times he did it. 20 years ago Brian the chin was still at the helm.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:03 pm
 


The last time was the transition to the Martin government that as I recall had a coalition formed by Harper set up to overthrow him correct?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:05 pm
 


I never voted for Chrétien and what he did then and what Harper (who I did initially support) is doing now is equally as bad. Harper just isn't as "polished" so it appeared to be less of an issue then.

Harper is under the gun with the detainee scandal and is licking his lips at having control in the senate he’s supposed to hate. Everyone knows it and that’s the problem.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:07 pm
 


Curtman Curtman:
I'm not Scape either... But shouldn't the people who promised us open and honest government do a little better than this?


Anyone who promises an open and honest government is a liar. Sad but true.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:11 pm
 


FieryVulpine FieryVulpine:
Curtman Curtman:
I'm not Scape either... But shouldn't the people who promised us open and honest government do a little better than this?


Anyone who promises an open and honest government is a liar. Sad but true.


It seems that some liars are better than others. Harper is making a fool of himself now.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:13 pm
 


I support the prorogation of parliament. When the government isn't in session, they're not capable of causing much damage. I fear politicians more when they're working.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:15 pm
 


Lemmy Lemmy:
I fear politicians more when they're working.


Uh.... Isn't that an oxymoron? :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:20 pm
 


poquas poquas:
Lemmy Lemmy:
I fear politicians more when they're working.


Uh.... Isn't that an oxymoron? :lol:


No, they work hard. It's tough work convincing 30M people to hand over their hard-earned money. But they manage to do it, without a gun and with us all knowing full well that there is zero expectation of getting anything of value for our money. Nope, politicians are hard-working, like evil scientists. They can prorogue until 2050 (I should be dead by then) and it wouldn't bother me a lick.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:12 pm
 


PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:
Just out of curiosity, can someone refresh my memory as to why the Liberals had FOUR prorogues during their reign of stupidity?


Because prorogue is a legitimate procedural move, with a legitimate purpose.

It is used when the government has generally accomplished its legislative mandate, and wants to go forward with a new set of priorities. Hence, following prorogue, there is a throne speech.

Chretien prorogued for times, that is correct. The first three were in this vein. The fourth, I have read, was not so innocent, as it was used to avoid receiving the Auditor General's report on the sponsorship scandal. But is Chretien's record supposed to have been clean? Spare me.

Harper has prorogued three times, now. Not two. The first went unnoticed. The second was last year.

What makes this different is that this is twice in a row, twice in one Parliament no less, that Harper has used it to undermine Parliament. Not the AG, Parliament. First it was to dodge a vote of non-confidence that had been all but taken. The coalition was not a sure thing, so that doesn't justify the move. Parliament has the right to vote non-confidence in the government at any time. Think of the precedent: is it okay for the PM to prorogue any time there is a looming confidence vote? This time, he used it to shut down the embarrassing revelation on detainee treatment. Again, think of the precedent: is it okay for any PM to prorogue to quiet a troublesome committee? The Conservatives will not always be in power, some other party will eventually take over. Think of the future.

Harper is taking legitimate procedural moves with legitimate purposes, and using them far more often than intended, for purposes for which they were never intended, to the detriment of Parliament's primacy over Government, to the detriment of the faith of the voters in our political system, and to the detriment of the state of democracy in this country.

That Chretien used this move illegitimately once in four times does not in any way excuse Harper using it illegitimately twice in three times.

Ultimately, the voters decided that the Liberals had to go. Ultimately, they will decide whether these Conservatives have to. Hopefully they will remember this shameful disgrace of democracy when they decide.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:57 pm
 


poquas poquas:
It seems that some liars are better than others. Harper is making a fool of himself now.


All politicians make fools of themselves when they open their mouths, why else are they so despised? And why is Harper any different?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:38 pm
 


$1:
So you are for prorogation without consent of the house?


Since when was the consent of the house needed? He has (technically) the confidence of the house.





PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 7:33 am
 


Akhenaten Akhenaten:
$1:
So you are for prorogation without consent of the house?


Since when was the consent of the house needed? He has (technically) the confidence of the house.


I don't think there is much point of having 140,000 in a group yelling about this unless we at least try to accomplish something.

A bunch of people have suggested that we try to take the power to prorogue away from one man, and make the house vote for it or against it instead.

That way they can't use it to avoid the hot seat in a minority government.


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