[poquas]

stemmer stemmer:

What's wrong....don't know how to use an internet search engine? Sorry but this has been reported by mainstream media like CTV, CBC, CNN etc quite a bit recently...

It must be your "magic reception". So far the quality, bad management, etc. are all at the top of any list I've seen.

[Mustang1]

stemmer stemmer:

Mustang1 Mustang1:

stemmer stemmer:

GM's problems were not a lack of sales or poor quality... It was more due to the fact imports have an higher profit margin on their cars.... This can be attributed to the Big Three having an higher hourly wage and legacy costs of retirement pensions & healthcare benefits...

As many have already pointed out here GM's sales are #2 in the world only being slightly surpassed by Toyota in 2008... Prior to 2008 GM was the number one auto seller on the globe...

As per usual you're flat-ass wrong! Today's Globe and Mail business section + National Post + Fritz Henderson ALL attributed GM's woes to a lack of consumer confidence in the product. One of those contributing factors was POOR QUALITY. But hey, they're ALL wrong and you and Canadian Tire crew are right. Riiiiiight.

You should really consult someone about your Canadian Tire fetish...

Nothing on the Globe, Post or Henderson? Didn't think so. Shuffle on, Canadian Tire.

[poquas]

I wasn't able to find anything either....

You don't suppose he wuz lyin', do ya?

[Yogi]

Everyone who has argued this subject, on this thread or any one of the many others should follow this link and find their favorite manufacturer as well as their own vehicle, read up and then come back here and tell us all what a great 'ride' you own! Your vehicle is listed!

http://guide.opendns.com/?url=www.auto- ... justia.com

There. Fixed!

[stemmer]

GM was one of the largest providers of healthcare in the globe...

It is estimated healthcare cost GM on average about $1500.00 per vehicle. Toyota was estimated a cost of $200.00 per vehicle...

Toyota has about 300 retired employees in the US... and GM about 500,000...

$1:

http://money.cnn.com/2007/01/26/news/co ... /index.htm

Cost issues

A big reason is the cost of labor. As analyzed by Harbour-Felax, labor costs the Detroit Three substantially more per vehicle than it does the Japanese.

Health care is the biggest chunk. GM (Charts), for instance spends $1,635 per vehicle on health care for active and retired workers in the U.S. Toyota (Charts) pays nothing for retired workers - it has very few - and only $215 for active ones.

Other labor costs add to the bill. Contract issues like work rules, line relief and holiday pay amount to $630 per vehicle - costs that the Japanese don't have. And paying UAW members for not working when plants are shut costs another $350 per vehicle.

Here's one example of how knotty Detroit's labor problem can be:

If an assembly plant with 3,000 workers has no dealer orders, it has two options. One is to close the plant for a week and not build any cars. Then the company still has to give the idled workers 95 percent of their take-home pay plus all benefits for not working. So a one-week shutdown costs $7.7 million or $1,545 for each vehicle it didn't make.

[saturn_656]

Yogi Yogi:

Everyone who has argued this subject, on this thread or any one of the many others should follow this link and find their favorite manufacturer as well as their own vehicle, read up and then come back here and tell us all what a great 'ride' you own! Your vehicle is listed!

http://guide.opendns.com/?url=www.auto- ... justia.com

There. Fixed!

No recalls for my 2009 Montana SV6. Tickety boo!

One recall for my '03 Cav... bad turn signal contact. No biggie.

[ASLplease]

"$1,635 per vehicle" nsounds like a deceitful way to express costs. How much is it costing them per employee?

[Mustang1]

poquas poquas:

I wasn't able to find anything either....

You don't suppose he wuz lyin', do ya?

Evidently he got caught. Again.

[stemmer]

Please read my post 3 up from you.... There is a link there...

It is as I've said before...imports have an higher profit margin on their cars due to the Big Three having an higher hourly wage and legacy costs of retirement pensions & healthcare benefits...

But as is quite obvious you & your playmate Poquas are not interested in facts or anything I post. You are simply interested in trolling and causing disruptions to threads or having them locked...

[Mustang1]

stemmer stemmer:

Please read my post 3 up from you.... There is a link there...

Read it - and here's the part you conveniently left out (or didn't understand)

"On the revenue side, it is easier to apportion blame. The lack of pricing power by American producers, brought on by poor quality, unimaginative marketing and sales to rental fleets, cost them nearly $1,000 per car. When everything is added up, the average Japanese automaker reports revenue of $24,289 per vehicle - $2,692 more than the average domestic manufacturer. "

"Poor Quality" Methinks that i've seen that somewhere before. Oh wait, that was my point, reinforced by your disingenuous quote mining.

$1:

It is as I've said before...imports have an higher profit margin on their cars due to the Big Three having an higher hourly wage and legacy costs of retirement pensions & healthcare benefits...

WRONG!! YOUR OWN SOURCE CLAIMS, " The lack of pricing power by American producers, brought on by poor quality, unimaginative marketing and sales to rental fleets, cost them nearly $1,000 per car." I'll be waiting on you to concede the point that its NOT only health care, so let's see you weasel out of this one.

$1:

But as is quite obvious you & your playmate Poquas are not interested in facts or anything I post. You are simply interested in trolling and causing disruptions to threads or having them locked...

Its quite obvious that you're flat ass full of crap and you barely understand the mush you ape. You're here to push ignorance as fact and even when you quote mine, your woeful lack of knowledge gets exposed. You're nothing but a spammer and an automaton. You've been proven wrong. Again.

Oh...and bringing it back to the topic at hand, hypocrite, we're still waiting on your response to the Globe, the Post and Fritz Henderson, and your own aped source that all claim GM's crappy reliability is a cause for its current financial difficulties. This is where you run away.

[poquas]

Damn! I was just going to post exactly the same quote.

Stemmer is not interested in debate. He's so wound up in his hatred of all things foreign, he's unable to understand the facts that repeatedly hit him in the face.

[stemmer]

It was GM's legacy costs of retirement pensions and healthcare benefits that brought about it's demise... IF GM paid the same healthcare and pension amounts as Toyota they would be in this financial mess....

At the time of it's demise GM was one of the largest providers of healthcare in the world...!!!!!

[poquas]

stemmer stemmer:

It was GM's legacy costs of retirement pensions and healthcare benefits that brought about it's demise... IF GM paid the same healthcare and pension amounts as Toyota they would be in this financial mess....

At the time of it's demise GM was one of the largest providers of healthcare in the world...!!!!!

It seems the experts disagree with you.

[Mustang1]

stemmer stemmer:

It was GM's legacy costs of retirement pensions and healthcare benefits that brought about it's demise... IF GM paid the same healthcare and pension amounts as Toyota they would be in this financial mess....

At the time of it's demise GM was one of the largest providers of healthcare in the world...!!!!!

Not going to concede the point, quote-miner? Didn't think so, chicken. You're flat-ass wrong and your own aped mush just kicked your ignorance back in your face.

[OnTheIce]

I think both sides are correct. It's a combo of high legacy costs and a semi-par product being offered to the public.

Agree to compromise.