[llama66]

Oh, I wasn't sure if it was Olde or Middle English, thanks for the clarification! It too bad I don't have patience to read it, its supposed to be a masterpiece. Perhaps I'll try again after I read Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit.

[maldonsfecht]

llama66 llama66:

Oh, I wasn't sure if it was Olde or Middle English, thanks for the clarification! It too bad I don't have patience to read it, its supposed to be a masterpiece. Perhaps I'll try again after I read Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit.

it takes a little getting used to, but if you squint and hold your breath, it starts becoming clearer and clearer as you go... I recommend giving it another go... or just buying a modern-English version

or, go watch the best Arthur film made to date, "Excalibur"

[ShepherdsDog]

May have been a good story, but King Arthur(2004) portrays them in a more realistic setting and garb. It's also an interesting note, that those who Arthur battled were in fact the very Anglo Saxons, who had been hired by the Romanized Celts, to combat the Picts coming over Hadrians Wall....and founded England, land of the Angles. Driven into the fringes of their former domain, the Britons were called foreigners in their own home. Waelisc, was a Germanic term for foreigner, that eventually became Welsh/Wales.

Don't let anyone tell you that agrarian societies are peaceful. The Anglo Saxons like every other Germanic invader, beginning from the tribes that invaded the Roman Empire to the Norse Vikings, were farmers in their off season looking for more land.

On another side note, it's interesting that the letter Þ, which became Ƿ is where we get the Ye in 'Ye Olde Inne' and such. It eventually became indistinguishable from the letter Y, and was mistakenly mispronounced as a Y sound rather than a voiced dental fricative /th/ sound. 'Ye' should be pronounced 'The'. It would make teaching English pronunciation a hell of a lot easier, if we brought back the Ƿ and ð

[llama66]

maldonsfecht maldonsfecht:

llama66 llama66:

Oh, I wasn't sure if it was Olde or Middle English, thanks for the clarification! It too bad I don't have patience to read it, its supposed to be a masterpiece. Perhaps I'll try again after I read Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit.

it takes a little getting used to, but if you squint and hold your breath, it starts becoming clearer and clearer as you go... I recommend giving it another go... or just buying a modern-English version

or, go watch the best Arthur film made to date, "Excalibur"

I have a really nice Illustrated edition, so I really don't want to read the English translation, I find you lose so much in translation. I thought Sir Thomas Malory was English.

I liked Arthur, it was a different take on Arthurian Legend. and probably as close to the actual root of the legend as any.

[maldonsfecht]

llama66 llama66:

maldonsfecht maldonsfecht:

llama66 llama66:

Oh, I wasn't sure if it was Olde or Middle English, thanks for the clarification! It too bad I don't have patience to read it, its supposed to be a masterpiece. Perhaps I'll try again after I read Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit.

it takes a little getting used to, but if you squint and hold your breath, it starts becoming clearer and clearer as you go... I recommend giving it another go... or just buying a modern-English version

or, go watch the best Arthur film made to date, "Excalibur"

I have a really nice Illustrated edition, so I really don't want to read the English translation, I find you lose so much in translation. I thought Sir Thomas Malory was English.

I liked Arthur, it was a different take on Arthurian Legend. and probably as close to the actual root of the legend as any.

It's not so much a translation as it is a modern version... it's like saying I'd like to read a translation of Shakespeare in modern vernacular... But I completely understand what you mean as to not enjoying reading translations as much... I am reading Remarque's (All Quiet on the Western Front) books all in German now, and can't bear the thought of reading someone else's words instead of his own...

Malory WAS English... some of the sources he utilised came from the French, but he himself was English and wrote in the English of the day.

Arthur was a decent enough film... though I took umbrage at the way they made my Saxons look... haha Interestingly enough, the leader Stellan Skarsgard is a Swede and his son played by Til Schweiger is a famous German actor... so at least they got the heredity more or less correct.

I suggested Excalibur because it holds very closely to Malory's work, including the fanciful and mythical notions and themes... plus it has every cool British actor ever

They, and Sheperd's Dog above, are absolutely correct in making the distinction between Arthur as an English King and the truth of him being a Celtic warlord who fought the migration/settling of the Germanic Anglo-Saxons, later known collectively as the English.

If you're interested in an historical take on the tales, I highly recommend Bernard Cornwell's Arthurian Warlord Series... 3 books that deal with the Celtic Arthur fighting the invading Angles and Saxons. (Cornwell also wrote the great Sharpe series about the Napoleonic Wars -Sean Bean plays the titular character in a great series of films)

Cheers!

[EyeBrock]

I loved the Sharpe books so I might give the pre-England stuff a read. You are a wealth of good gen on this maldonsfecht!

[Tman1]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Vassal to the king of France? What history book were you reading? Unfounded nonsense.

As the Duke of Normandy, he owed fealty to the King of France. Where do you get the notion of unfounded nonsense?? What history book were YOU reading? No really, I am curious as how it disproves primary sources and other academics. Educate yourself on Medieval terminology before making 'unfounded' nonsense of your own. Kind of dumb coming from somebody who 'seems' to have some inkling of his 'country of births' history...weird.

[llama66]

My mom used to hang up the phone if I called during Sharpe, damn you Sean Bean!! I want to read the Master and Commander Series too, 18-19 Century sailing on a frigate. pure awesomeness.

[Tman1]

Ever watch/read that Hornblower series?

[EyeBrock]

Tman1 Tman1:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Vassal to the king of France? What history book were you reading? Unfounded nonsense.

As the Duke of Normandy, he owed fealty to the King of France. Where do you get the notion of unfounded nonsense?? What history book were YOU reading? No really, I am curious as how it disproves primary sources and other academics. Educate yourself on Medieval terminology before making 'unfounded' nonsense of your own. Kind of dumb coming from somebody who 'seems' to have some inkling of his 'country of births' history...weird.

As the Duke of Normandy he might have had some requirements of loyalty to Phillip, but that didn't stop him from attacking other French domains as did William II and ignoring French Kings, and England was not a vassal state to France.
William II son Henry paid no such homage from the Norman possessions in France to the weak French kings and scared the shite out of most of France.
The Plantagenet kings of England actively fought lengthy wars in France to take further chunks of French soil to become blessed Blighty.

Hundred Years War, “…we few, we few, we happy few…” etc.
It would be more accurate to say that the French were constantly getting the shit kicked out of them by various English Kings and Lords who paid no taxes or homage to French kings.
I can't recall any further large scale or successful invasions of England by French kings/dukes or others trying to enforce any so-called vassal-dom after William I (1066 and all that).

That's why the Channel islands remain the last parts of the old kingdom of France that are still British. I don't see any French possessions in England's sphere of influence.

To say England was a vassal state of France is not only simplistic, it's wrong.

Even to us mere mortals with an 'inkling' of English history.

But hey Tman, you can get things wrong and still be a clever chap, really!

On a seperate note I quite liked the Hornblower books and TV shows too!

[maldonsfecht]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

I loved the Sharpe books so I might give the pre-England stuff a read. You are a wealth of good gen on this maldonsfecht!

Cheers Brock!

I'd without hesitation recommend the pre-England Cornwell... my favourite series of his outside of Sharpe...

I think my interest in British history stems directly from my family and their ties to it. Brought up with a great curiosity for it as a result.

[llama66]

Tman1 Tman1:

Ever watch/read that Hornblower series?

Another good series, Its supposed to be based on one of my favorite historical personalties, Vice-Admiral Horatio Nelson.

and what about the Aubrey–Maturin series by Patrick O'Brian

[EyeBrock]

I'm a big 'master and commander' fan also. Love that movie, great sound too, those naval battles shake my house.

Lt Mowat (after HMS Suprise has just had a shit-kicking from a French broadside)

"Your orders Sir?"

Capt Aubrey

"Straight at 'em Mr Mowat"

Lt Mowat (smiling)

"Straight at 'em sir!"

Good shit!

[maldonsfecht]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

I'm a big 'master and commander' fan also. Love that movie, great sound too, those naval battles shake my house.

Lt Mowat (after HMS Suprise has just had a shit-kicking from a French broadside)

"Your orders Sir?"

Capt Aubrey

"Straight at 'em Mr Mowat"

Lt Mowat (smiling)

"Straight at 'em sir!"

Good shit!

great film... the bits where they pull out their instruments in the cabin is always great... the speech before the last battle going on about "Do you want your children to sing the Marseillaise? See a guillotine in Picadilly?!" gives me shivers!

but I have to point out that the ship they were fighting was supposed to be an American... in the books it was, and even in the script of the film they make mistakes in calling it a Privateer and showing that it was built in Boston... they made her a French vessel in order to make Russel Crowe blowing heads off of the King's enemies a little more palatable to the Yankee audience...

[EyeBrock]

Just a good movie on many levels. Pure leadership stuff! The bit that I always get a bit teary on is when the one-armed midshipman was trying to sew up his mates body-bag, and he looks up at a rating and asks him for help. He goes from Officer to kid asking an older guy for help. Just good stuff!