CKA Forums
Login 
canadian forums
bottom
 
 
Canadian Forums

Author Topic Options
Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber


GROUP_AVATAR
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 42160
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:52 pm
 


ok ....birthed/created


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber
 Vancouver Canucks
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 25516
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:03 pm
 


EyeBrock EyeBrock:
At the same time the same secularists are promoting ‘diversity’ and religious toleration of any other faith but Christianity.

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/35k6lh/

:lol:


Offline
CKA Super Elite
CKA Super Elite
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 5321
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:27 pm
 


2Cdo 2Cdo:
Guy_Fawkes Guy_Fawkes:
I am concerned that such a high majority of the population in the US sees something which science has proven to be wrong as fact.


Which honestly concerns you how? You're posting history in regards to religion is summed up with "I don't like religious people", no matter how much you twist and spin when called on it.

Sorry I missed responding to you about this,

Can you show me some of my previous posts where this is the case? It is very possible I could have come across badly in the past or gotten annoyed with a subject somehow and said something I did not truly intend. It is not my intention to "not like religious people." If I did seem that way, I would like to know when specifically so I can avoid doing the same mistake in the future.


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 50938
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:03 pm
 


Zipperfish Zipperfish:
There is a lot of evidence supporting evolution. But there is also a lot of evidence that we are essentially meat puppets whose entire existence is predetermined (if you are a Newtonian determinist) or based on chance (if you subscribe to quantum physics). This evidence supports the notion that free will does not, in fact, exist. So the people who believe in god have no choice but to, and if they stop believing, they have no choice in that either, if you want to be a strict rationalist about it all.

If there is no free will, the American Dream is a casualty. The American Dream is that if you make good choices you will rise to the level of your abilities. But, of course, it is likely that we can't make choices at all. What we do is entirely based on the state of the universe at the time of the Big Bang, or upon quantum randomness.

The first point is that most atheists continue to believe that they choose to be atheists, despite evidence that they had no choice. The second point is, that while free will may be an illusion, it is an illusion that is not that easy to dispel and may be quite useful. Belief in god is the same, in my opinion.

Amazing. Simply amazing.


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 15681
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:37 pm
 


Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:
Gunnair Gunnair:
Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:
I'm trying to say replacing studied scientific fact in classrooms and scientific institutions with religious hyperbole, much like creationists in the US are trying to do, is just as wrong and detrimental as the witch hunts were back in the 18th and 19th century. How is that an invalid argument?


Well you're using a 300 year old event as your example for your concerns with religion making its way into the classroom.

So, how is the religious persecution and execution of suspected witches by 300 year old religious extremists comparable to creationism in the classroom?

It doesn't - anymore than citing the Holocaust as an example of the Quebec government crackdown on students.

Creationism in the classroom in 2012 will not result in young girls being accused of witchcraft and tortured then executed.


Saying "creationism in 21st century is as wrong and detrimental as the witch hunts in the 18th & 19th century" is a comparison between two different subject matters for the sake of making a point. I never made the witch hunt an example of possible consequences. That would have looked like, "young girls will be burned at the stake because of creationism."

Do I think teaching creationism will lead to the mass-slaughter of young women? I sure as fuck hope not. But to me teaching creationism in the classroom as "educational material" is just the same as what the more extreme Muslim countries are doing by teaching Islam in the classroom as "educational material". Look at how that turned out. You can't say we wont end up becoming equally barbaric and backwards in the long run because of it.



I have to go along with this view. Well said Charlie Mike.


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber
 Vancouver Canucks


GROUP_AVATAR

GROUP_AVATAR
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 23565
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:13 pm
 


EyeBrock EyeBrock:
Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:
Gunnair Gunnair:

Well you're using a 300 year old event as your example for your concerns with religion making its way into the classroom.

So, how is the religious persecution and execution of suspected witches by 300 year old religious extremists comparable to creationism in the classroom?

It doesn't - anymore than citing the Holocaust as an example of the Quebec government crackdown on students.

Creationism in the classroom in 2012 will not result in young girls being accused of witchcraft and tortured then executed.


Saying "creationism in 21st century is as wrong and detrimental as the witch hunts in the 18th & 19th century" is a comparison between two different subject matters for the sake of making a point. I never made the witch hunt an example of possible consequences. That would have looked like, "young girls will be burned at the stake because of creationism."

Do I think teaching creationism will lead to the mass-slaughter of young women? I sure as fuck hope not. But to me teaching creationism in the classroom as "educational material" is just the same as what the more extreme Muslim countries are doing by teaching Islam in the classroom as "educational material". Look at how that turned out. You can't say we wont end up becoming equally barbaric and backwards in the long run because of it.



I have to go along with this view. Well said Charlie Mike.


The next step in the argument. Teaching creationism/ religion is the same as what they do in a Madrasah. Madrasah teaches terrorism. Therefore, teaching creationism will make terrorists.

I'm surprised you buy into that so quickly, EB, when you don't buy into the blanket statements regularly made about the police and the attitudes therein.

Or does that type of argument suddenly have merit now?


Offline
Forum Super Elite
Forum Super Elite
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 2218
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:21 pm
 


Guy_Fawkes Guy_Fawkes:
Dont know why you think I want people to forsake their belief in God. It is very easy to hold a belief that God started life, but that we still evolved from that instance of unicellular creation. Maybe you should stop assuming that every Atheist wants to eradicate theistic beliefs.


Ah yes Intelligent Design and Irreducible complexity

This sums it up nicely

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitzmiller ... l_District

A significant aspect of the IDM [intelligent design movement] is that despite Defendants' protestations to the contrary, it describes ID as a religious argument. In that vein, the writings of leading ID proponents reveal that the designer postulated by their argument is the God of Christianity.

he evidence at trial demonstrates that ID is nothing less than the progeny of creationism.

fter a searching review of the record and applicable caselaw, we find that while ID arguments may be true, a proposition on which the Court takes no position, ID is not science. We find that ID fails on three different levels, any one of which is sufficient to preclude a determination that ID is science. They are: (1) ID violates the centuries-old ground rules of science by invoking and permitting supernatural causation; (2) the argument of irreducible complexity, central to ID, employs the same flawed and illogical contrived dualism that doomed creation science in the 1980s; and (3) ID's negative attacks on evolution have been refuted by the scientific community. …It is additionally important to note that ID has failed to gain acceptance in the scientific community, it has not generated peer-reviewed publications, nor has it been the subject of testing and research. Expert testimony reveals that since the scientific revolution of the 16th and 17th centuries, science has been limited to the search for natural causes to explain natural phenomena

Accordingly, we find that the secular purposes claimed by the Board amount to a pretext for the Board's real purpose, which was to promote religion in the public school classroom, in violation of the Establishment Clause


Offline
CKA Super Elite
CKA Super Elite
 Vancouver Canucks


GROUP_AVATAR

GROUP_AVATAR
Profile
Posts: 6642
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:41 pm
 


Gunnair Gunnair:

The next step in the argument. Teaching creationism/ religion is the same as what they do in a Madrasah. Madrasah teaches terrorism. Therefore, teaching creationism will make terrorists.

I'm surprised you buy into that so quickly, EB, when you don't buy into the blanket statements regularly made about the police and the attitudes therein.

Or does that type of argument suddenly have merit now?


When you teach people math, english, the sciences, etc, you are teaching them logical knowledge developed or discovered through logical means. Thusly, when encountering problems, these people generally will respond with logic to determine solutions to those problems.

When you teach people religion in schools, you teach them to believe in things developed through faith, emotion. Thus, you are teaching them the best way to respond to a problem is to go with what they believe to be the best thing to do, not what is logically the best thing to do.

When people are taught to respond to problems with emotions rather that logic, generally shit happens. And sometimes you can get a brilliant orator who is able to take advantage of this for his own psychotic means. Again, look at Islam. It is a religion that espouses peace and tranquility. 99 out of 100 kids will never go nuts studying the Qur'an. Then you get someone who tells them that if they are true believers, they will rail in Jihad against the west. Not all these kids will fall into this trap. However, compared to students in the west, a far greater proportion, using faith as their only guide to life, will take up the cause.

Why does this happen? Probably because a person raised to think logically would say, "fuck that," when told they will be doing their duty to god by flying an airliner into a building. But if you were educated to believe and have faith in something that can't be conclusively proven true, it may be easier to convince you that this is the course of action god wants you to do.


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 33492
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:45 pm
 


Yet many products of the vaunted US school system had no problem marching to Iraq, despite the bullshit and emotion that was thrown around there.


Offline
CKA Super Elite
CKA Super Elite
 Vancouver Canucks


GROUP_AVATAR

GROUP_AVATAR
Profile
Posts: 6642
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:49 pm
 


andyt andyt:
Yet many products of the vaunted US school system had no problem marching to Iraq, despite the bullshit and emotion that was thrown around there.


You have to understand that once in the military system, you lose your right to say no.


Offline
CKA Super Elite
CKA Super Elite
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 5321
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:07 pm
 


Gunnair Gunnair:
The next step in the argument. Teaching creationism/ religion is the same as what they do in a Madrasah. Madrasah teaches terrorism. Therefore, teaching creationism will make terrorists.

I'm surprised you buy into that so quickly, EB, when you don't buy into the blanket statements regularly made about the police and the attitudes therein.

Or does that type of argument suddenly have merit now?

That's a mighty hefty strawman, the scarecrow would be proud. I do not recall anyone linking Christian creationism to terrorism, well besides you. Could we also stop with the ad hominem attacks?


Offline
CKA Moderator
CKA Moderator
 Vancouver Canucks


GROUP_AVATAR
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 65472
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:03 pm
 


andyt andyt:
Yet many products of the vaunted US school system had no problem marching to Iraq, despite the bullshit and emotion that was thrown around there.


For some of us going to Iraq in 2003 was finishing a job that was left unfinished a decade before.


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber
Profile
Posts: 12349
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:11 pm
 


That job was finished by 2004 , wasn't it?


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 15681
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:59 pm
 


Gunny, I think some of the non-religious have valid points as do you Christians. Two sides to this one mate.


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber
 Vancouver Canucks


GROUP_AVATAR

GROUP_AVATAR
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 23565
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:29 pm
 


Guy_Fawkes Guy_Fawkes:
Gunnair Gunnair:
The next step in the argument. Teaching creationism/ religion is the same as what they do in a Madrasah. Madrasah teaches terrorism. Therefore, teaching creationism will make terrorists.

I'm surprised you buy into that so quickly, EB, when you don't buy into the blanket statements regularly made about the police and the attitudes therein.

Or does that type of argument suddenly have merit now?

That's a mighty hefty strawman, the scarecrow would be proud. I do not recall anyone linking Christian creationism to terrorism, well besides you. Could we also stop with the ad hominem attacks?


$1:
But to me teaching creationism in the classroom as "educational material" is just the same as what the more extreme Muslim countries are doing by teaching Islam in the classroom as "educational material". Look at how that turned out. You can't say we wont end up becoming equally barbaric and backwards in the long run because of it.


Missed that in your latest knee jerking agenda laden post. What a shock really.

By the way, point out the ad hominem attack in that last post.


Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 153 posts ]  Previous  1 ... 4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  Next



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests




 
     
All logos and trademarks in this site are property of their respective owner.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © Canadaka.net. Powered by © phpBB.