[andyt]

Lemmy Lemmy:

andyt andyt:

Until they're used.

But they aren't used. They're banked. That's the point. They never get used. That's why management loves to give accumulated sick days.

andyt andyt:

But if the company was smart, they'd give the posties even more sick days, and use lower paid help to fill in.

But you're still paying the postie's wage too. Even if you pay the sub $15/hr, $22/hr < $22/hr + $15/hr.

Right. Forgot about that.

But I bet most posties don't bank them for ever, but take little extra holidays, which do cost. And those that bank until retirement get paid time off at the end. No way the company can avoid paying them if hours are banked indefinitely.

I would say 12 days a year, and start fresh each year would be good enough.

[smorgdonkey]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Your business is changing so it's time you and the union get your head out of your collective ass and wake up.

Of course it is changing but not in the ways that you think...that is if you are believing what you see in the media - if you have any other information that isn't in the media which you are basing your opinions on then by all means...make it available.

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Your workforce is bloated and is paid 15-20% more than your private counterparts.

The workforce is not bloated, in fact they don't have enough people to do the work...which is part of the reason they bring casuals in and pay overtime...'my' private counterparts do not have the same working conditions, nor do they have the same business model.

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Your pension plan is broke and yet again, another union is using the Canadian people and business as hostages.

The pension plan is 'broke' (interesting choice of words but...) because the corporation took the 'surplus' when investing times were good...therefor they should pay when the times are bad.

By the way...we were LOCKED OUT. When we were on rotating strikes it was little more than a slight disruption. The corporation's actions are what keeps the public and business hostage.

I would say that you are delusional but I know that you are just uninformed.

andyt andyt:

And those that bank until retirement get paid time off at the end.

No. No paid time off at the end. Just accumulated hours that go into oblivion.

[andyt]

smorgdonkey smorgdonkey:

The pension plan is 'broke' (interesting choice of words but...) because the corporation took the 'surplus' when investing times were good...therefor they should pay when the times are bad.

Absolutely. In fact I don't understand how it's legal for the company to touch the pension plan for any reason. It's not their plan. Really pension plans should be overseen by a trustee to make sure things are kept kosher.

[Lemmy]

andyt andyt:

But I bet most posties don't bank them for ever,

That's the misconception. Most ARE banked forever.

andyt andyt:

but take little extra holidays, which do cost. And those that bank until retirement get paid time off at the end. No way the company can avoid paying them if hours are banked indefinitely.

They don't get a retirement payout of sickdays. Some groups do. Some Ontario teachers, for example, get up to 40 paid days gratuity at retirement if they've accumulated at least 80 days. CUPW has no such clause in their contract.

andyt andyt:

I would say 12 days a year, and start fresh each year would be good enough.

Yeah, but you don't know what you're talking about.

[andyt]

So you're saying those days are banked and never paid for?

[smorgdonkey]

Yogi Yogi:

Can't find the exact article now... but sit back and have a 'good read'!

http://www.cpcstrategicreview-examenstr ... 2-eng.html

I've 'had a good read' of that before. It doesn't matter because they get their statistics from the corporation and then do their studies. The corporation doesn't allow people to come in and study their business.

Here's an example of how they take statistics:
-determine when mail will be counted.
-hire temporary personnel to count mail.
-hold mail in the larger facilities until counting is completed.
-have deflated numbers to use as 'facts'.

I wouldn't say it if I hadn't seen it. When I heard of the volume counts before seeing it with my own eyes I thought that the carriers were just whining and moaning/being paranoid or making up excuses. The fact is that there are so many huge salaries riding the backs of the people who actually come into contact with the mail it is unreal.

The stats involving 'volume' are all conditional. They have conditions set to them so that they look like they are declining.

examples:

-as previously mentioned, the highly publicized 17% first class mail decline. That is only the mail decline involving 'to the door' delivery. No other delivery is counted in that statistic. Seems silly doesn't it? There is a bunch of first class mail that is in the system but because it doesn't fit a certain criteria, it is not counted.
-transaction mail drops can be attributed to the same sort of criteria. It wouldn't surprise me that they are counting transaction mail only from the customers they had at that time and that even though there is a 46% reduction, because they had tripled their number of clients it now means an actual 38% increase. This is hypothetical but I've seen the way that Canada Post takes its data and it is always FOR A PURPOSE. Their purpose is always determined prior to taking the data and it is never as simple as 'what are out actual volumes?'. Never. I only found out about the skewed way that they came up with the 17% drop since 2006 statistic last week.

The more I learn about the corporation the more disappointed I am.

andyt andyt:

So you're saying those days are banked and never paid for?

Yes. They are there for long term illness for example, cancer patients getting chemo treatments.

[Lemmy]

andyt andyt:

So you're saying those days are banked and never paid for?

Yup. The members themselves view their accumulated sick days as a badge of accomplishment. They brag to one another about how many they've built up.

[andyt]

Lemmy Lemmy:

andyt andyt:

So you're saying those days are banked and never paid for?

Yup. The members themselves view their accumulated sick days as a badge of accomplishment. They brag to one another about how many they've built up.

Then what are the company and right wing media whining about? In places I've worked with generous sick days, many people took them off so they wouldn't lose them. And the posties I used to know seemed to do the same thing. Or let's just say that hangovers were counted as being sick.

[smorgdonkey]

Lemmy Lemmy:

andyt andyt:

So you're saying those days are banked and never paid for?

Yup. The members themselves view their accumulated sick days as a badge of accomplishment. They brag to one another about how many they've built up.

EXACTLY!!

Over 700 hours!!

The issue is that there are abusers...Canada Post needs a mechanism to deal with that. The good workers are quite pissed about the sick leave abusers because (as you can tell by the issue that it became) the only way that Canada Post feels that it can deal with it is to take it away from everyone.

There is also a provision that states if the postal workers who are currently locked out get to keep the sick time plan, then 2 previous groups who lost it will regain it...which makes it a larger issue. However, the carriers are the ones who need it most because the new delivery system is UNREAL and they are going to have far more wear and tear now. Canada Post had 9000 approved WCB claims last year...that's 20% of the claims in 6% of 'government' workers (note the ' marks around 'government').

[Lemmy]

andyt andyt:

Then what are the company and right wing media whining about?

Because they're ignorant douchebags that live to bash unions.

andyt andyt:

In places I've worked with generous sick days, many people took them off so they wouldn't lose them. And the posties I used to know seemed to do the same thing. Or let's just say that hangovers were counted as being sick.

That's the perception, but my research (mind you, most of my research is with teachers and police) overwhelmingly concludes that accumulated sick leave is rarely used and, in sum, is a net benefit to management, not union member.

[andyt]

smorgdonkey smorgdonkey:

Lemmy Lemmy:

andyt andyt:

So you're saying those days are banked and never paid for?

Yup. The members themselves view their accumulated sick days as a badge of accomplishment. They brag to one another about how many they've built up.

EXACTLY!!

Over 700 hours!!

And you're never going to get paid for that? Good for you - very dedicated worker. I'm all for generous sick times for true sickness, but it does seem to get abused by many people. If CP was smart they would make a contest out of with, with prizes for accumulating the most.

[Brenda]

smorgdonkey smorgdonkey:

Lemmy Lemmy:

andyt andyt:

So you're saying those days are banked and never paid for?

Yup. The members themselves view their accumulated sick days as a badge of accomplishment. They brag to one another about how many they've built up.

EXACTLY!!

Over 700 hours!!

That's retirement 1/2 years earlier. Just call in sick every day 1/2 year before you're planned retirement date. You get paid anyway. Way to go!

[Lemmy]

Brenda Brenda:

That's retirement 1/2 years earlier. Just call in sick every day 1/2 year before you're planned retirement date. You get paid anyway. Way to go!

That would work for about 4 days before they were fired for misusing sick leave.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Brenda Brenda:

That's retirement 1/2 years earlier. Just call in sick every day 1/2 year before you're planned retirement date. You get paid anyway. Way to go!

That would work for about 4 days before they were fired for misusing sick leave.

Depending on what level and gov't dept you work for, that can take up to one year to get fired.

[smorgdonkey]

Well, technically we aren't any level of government employee and you need doctor's certification after 3 days.