[DerbyX]

Curtman Curtman:

All the people who attack me don't understand that I want the same thing they do, an end to the drug war.

They don't see that. They see you as somebody who helped supply drugs to kids who later overdosed and died or became addicted. That is not my argument just that their opinion of what you did is at least as valid as your of what Hayward did.

Curtman Curtman:

I'm not somebody who blames the police for the war on drugs. I want the police to be effective. I don't blame them for doing their job the best that they could.

So then the their argument that drugs should remain illegal and dealt with more harshly is just as valid.

Do I need to continue to point out that the police could have and would have charged this guy for any drug related offenses they could prove and that their sexual relationship was simply not against the law.

Its not a moral argument. Its a legal one.

[Curtman]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Curtman Curtman:

All the people who attack me don't understand that I want the same thing they do, an end to the drug war.

They don't see that. They see you as somebody who helped supply drugs to kids who later overdosed and died or became addicted. That is not my argument just that their opinion of what you did is at least as valid as your of what Hayward did.

I know. There's nothing I can do to fix what I've done in the past, except try to change things for the future though. If people think I should be punished for telling my story, well have fun with that.

DerbyX DerbyX:

Curtman Curtman:

I'm not somebody who blames the police for the war on drugs. I want the police to be effective. I don't blame them for doing their job the best that they could.

So then the their argument that drugs should remain illegal and dealt with more harshly is just as valid.

Do I need to continue to point out that the police could have and would have charged this guy for any drug related offenses they could prove and that their sexual relationship was simply not against the law.

Its not a moral argument. Its a legal one.

No, making drugs illegal only enables gangsters. They can make it illegal for the sky to be blue, but it still will be sometimes.

[DerbyX]

Curtman Curtman:

I know. There's nothing I can do to fix what I've done in the past, except try to change things for the future though. If people think I should be punished for telling my story, well have fun with that.

I'm not arguing with you. I'm saying this guy deserved the change to better his life as you did.

Curtman Curtman:

No, making drugs illegal only enables gangsters. They can make it illegal for the sky to be blue, but it still will be sometimes.

Again, no argument here. Mine was the legality of their relationship and the fact that this guy did not deserve to be gunned down because some asshole was a bad parent. He failed to keep her off drugs. He failed to help her get off drugs. He failed to convince his daughter to leave this guy and he failed to even prevent her from going back when she got out of the hospital.

That he resorted to killing another human being because he is a failed parent is the key issue. He will go to jail for what he did and justice will be served.

[Gunnair]

Thanos Thanos:

The eight-year age gap between them, fucking retarded age of consent laws as written by Svend Robinson be damned, most likely strikes the majority of us as rather disgusting. The drug dealing and doing things like shooting her up with morphine when she was asleep merely confirmed his scumbagness.

Rail away all you want at us prudes, but apparently you're the only one around here who's willing to tut-tut this now (thankfully) deceased SOB's behavior.

Don't condone the behavior of either.

Curious that you have massive issue with the legal sex between two consenting adults (as morally repugnant as may be found with age difference) but you're cheer leading murder?

Just clarifying here.

[Curtman]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Curtman Curtman:

I know. There's nothing I can do to fix what I've done in the past, except try to change things for the future though. If people think I should be punished for telling my story, well have fun with that.

I'm not arguing with you. I'm saying this guy deserved the change to better his life as you did.

Well I'll argue that one. I never sold drugs to anybody, and I learned very quickly what people who do are capable of.

DerbyX DerbyX:

Again, no argument here. Mine was the legality of their relationship and the fact that this guy did not deserve to be gunned down because some asshole was a bad parent. He failed to keep her off drugs. He failed to help her get off drugs. He failed to convince his daughter to leave this guy and he failed to even prevent her from going back when she got out of the hospital.

That he resorted to killing another human being because he is a failed parent is the key issue. He will go to jail for what he did and justice will be served.

Right there where you blamed the parents was where I got upset.

[DerbyX]

Curtman Curtman:

Well I'll argue that one. I never sold drugs to anybody, and I learned very quickly what people who do are capable of.

Yet you argue transporting drugs wasn't the same thing and argue for the legalization under the assumption drug users will be better people?

Curtman Curtman:

Right there where you blamed the parents was where I got upset.

He is to blame for his actions? Did anybody force him to kill a man? You do realize that most of the people here supporting this are also supporting a father sitting out with a shotgun for some randy teen who brings their little darling angle home a few minutes late right?

[Gunnair]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Curtman Curtman:

I know. There's nothing I can do to fix what I've done in the past, except try to change things for the future though. If people think I should be punished for telling my story, well have fun with that.

I'm not arguing with you. I'm saying this guy deserved the change to better his life as you did.

Curtman Curtman:

No, making drugs illegal only enables gangsters. They can make it illegal for the sky to be blue, but it still will be sometimes.

Again, no argument here. Mine was the legality of their relationship and the fact that this guy did not deserve to be gunned down because some asshole was a bad parent. He failed to keep her off drugs. He failed to help her get off drugs. He failed to convince his daughter to leave this guy and he failed to even prevent her from going back when she got out of the hospital.

That he resorted to killing another human being because he is a failed parent is the key issue. He will go to jail for what he did and justice will be served.

This makes me curious. Do you have kids?

[DerbyX]

Gunnair Gunnair:

This makes me curious. Do you have kids?

No, but does that invalidate me from rendering an opinion on murder?

In a related theme, a few friends from high school that got married and now have 2 daughters under the age of 9 recently posted about how the father (who is rather large will be the sitting on the porch with a shotgun type).

I pointed out to them that they were actually caught in the act when she was 15 and he 16 yet he was not beaten/killed and they eventually married.

They laughed and said their daughters were not going to date until they were in university or else.

[Curtman]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Yet you argue transporting drugs wasn't the same thing and argue for the legalization under the assumption drug users will be better people?

The honest truth is, I didn't realize what I was doing until I realized it was very bad. The way these things happen is that all your friends who you know and trust get involved in something, and you want to be a part of it too. Then you watch their lives fall apart, and watch their families deal with the collapse.

DerbyX DerbyX:

Curtman Curtman:

Right there where you blamed the parents was where I got upset.

He is to blame for his actions? Did anybody force him to kill a man? You do realize that most of the people here supporting this are also supporting a father sitting out with a shotgun for some randy teen who brings their little darling angle home a few minutes late right?

I understand the desperation. I've tried to help friends from falling into the cesspool. If it was my daughter, I'd be way far into insane.

[DerbyX]

Curtman Curtman:

The honest truth is, I didn't realize what I was doing until I realized it was very bad. The way these things happen is that all your friends who you know and trust get involved in something, and you want to be a part of it too. Then you watch their lives fall apart, and watch their families deal with the collapse.

Yet you petition for its legality. I don't know your personal history but I have had experience with drugs. Me and my friends all did them in university (including the heavier drugs) and all have gone on to better lives. Some very respectable people on this forum are adults with families and they partake still.

Curtman Curtman:

I understand the desperation. I've tried to help friends from falling into the cesspool. If it was my daughter, I'd be way far into insane.

That is why we have laws against vigilantism.

What if this had been your only son?

[Curtman]

I petition for their legality because I recognize that prohibition feeds the profit motive. It's a culture among teenagers that begins with drugs, and ends with prison and/or death. I really don't care who partakes in what, as long as they aren't recruiting other participants.

[DerbyX]

Curtman Curtman:

I petition for their legality because I recognize that prohibition feeds the profit motive. It's a culture among teenagers that begins with drugs, and ends with prison and/or death. I really don't care who partakes in what, as long as they aren't recruiting other participants.

Recruiting? Like alcohol advertising?

Regardless, you brought up the argument "if it was my daughter".

What about if it was your son murdered? Would you want justice? Would you be justified in seeking revenge by either killing him or by killing his child, aka her?

[Benn]

That's right, because back in the day when they ended alcohol prohibition the mafia went broke and disbanded. So making illegal things legal will be the end to gangs - not!

[Gunnair]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Gunnair Gunnair:

This makes me curious. Do you have kids?

No, but does that invalidate me from rendering an opinion on murder?

No.

It does suggest, however, that you have no first hand knowledge or experience to back up your judgement of a person's parenting abilities though.

[Curtman]

Benn Benn:

That's right, because back in the day when they ended alcohol prohibition the mafia went broke and disbanded. So making illegal things legal will be the end to gangs - not!

Didn't they? During alcohol prohibition, they had public support. What have they got now, besides the laws that enable them?