[andyt]

Unless Israel actually closes most settlements (maybe the odd land swap of equal value) it just has not leg to stand on. The Palestinians use direct aggression - rockets, suicide attacks etc. The Israelis just use a more gradual form of aggression that doesn't directly produce the body count that rockets do. It's just as much war tho. People here talk about Palestinians vowing to wipe out Israel. Israel is actually wiping out Palestine in deed, rather than words.

Close the settlements. If Israel is still attacked, respond militarily, even to the point of occupying the West Bank with soldiers. Using settlers tho, says something completely different, that they mean to take all the land. Israel talks about peace, but its actions say otherwise. As long as that continues, they can't claim the moral high ground over the Palestinians, even Hamas.

[DrCaleb]

andyt andyt:

Unless Israel actually closes most settlements (maybe the odd land swap of equal value) it just has not leg to stand on.

Bull. Israel has given little patches of land to the Palestinians and said "make your own choices, build your own future" - and they show time and again that they are not capable of acting like adults. If the Palestinians want to cheer at the murder of children just because they are Israeli, and show no hint that there will be any real legal repercussions then it's appropriate that a small bit of that land be taken back. And it will continue until Palestinians learn how to behave in a civilized world, or until there is no land left to take back.

One follows the other, the bad behaviour, then the reclaiming of land. When the former stops, so will the latter.

[Zipperfish]

Meh, they're both dicks. We gotta back Israel because they're more like us, but they're still dicks.

[martin14]

Unsound Unsound:

While I don't really believe that a halt to the settlements would magically bring about peace, it is one of the last legitmate complaints that the Hamas apologists have and I would love to see what they can come up with next.

One needs only to look at Gaza to see what happens when trading land for peace with the Palis.

Egypt was able to behave, they got land for peace.
Same with Jordan.

And, stopping the rockets would not mean everything would be ok.
That's the beginning of the process, not the end.

[ShepherdsDog]

There's more chance of change coming from the Israelis, as they have actual elections. Labour worked to find a peaceful settlement, as did Likkud ....once upon a time. The Arabs threw it all back in their face, even when they were offered almost all they asked for. The Israelis pulled out of Gaza completely, leaving all the infrastructure intact.....the Arabs reponded with rocket and terrorist attacks. That is why Gaza is now an enclosed and blockaded area. They can't be trusted, especially with Hamas in charge of the area....Fatah, possibly.

[BartSimpson]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

The Israelis pulled out of Gaza completely, leaving all the infrastructure intact

Yes, and the ignorant baboons pillaged, looted, and burned everything because the thought of doing anything productive never even crossed their minds. I recall some bunch of greenhouses that American and Canadian liberals bought from the Israelis as a gift for their pet moslems in Gaza and how the liberals congratulated themselves on their charity and sensitivity only to have their pet moslems destroy the whole damn thing and then use the irrigation pipes to make rockets and the cinder blocks to make tunnels.

I've said this before and I'll say it again: If any other country had such a hostile entity on their border they'd have wiped these a**holes off the face of the earth long ago.

Hell, does anyone think for even one second that Valdemort Putin would tolerate this?

But Israel is bad because they've put up with it for fifty years.

[DrCaleb]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Meh, they're both dicks. We gotta back Israel because they're more like us, but they're still dicks.

Yup. At least Israel has a certain morality and generally follows it.

[ShepherdsDog]

You're not going to find anything remotely comparable coming from the Arabs.

It's a level of and dedication to a moral code that you would be hard pressed to find from the other side.

https://www.standwithus.com/news/article.asp?id=1671
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/ ... AidSPldUbI
http://www.jpost.com/Health-and-Science ... cks-362269
http://www.breakingisraelnews.com/18745 ... estinians/

[Zipperfish]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Meh, they're both dicks. We gotta back Israel because they're more like us, but they're still dicks.

Yup. At least Israel has a certain morality and generally follows it.

They act in a manner more familiar to us. That may interpreted as more moral. They also stole the bomb from the US and issue Mossad assassins Candian passports. Like I said more like us, but not someone I'd turn my back on.

[Xort]

andyt andyt:

The Palestinians use direct aggression - rockets, suicide attacks etc. The Israelis just use a more gradual form of aggression that doesn't directly produce the body count that rockets do.

When Israel takes land they are backed by their military who are more than happy to kill anyone that gets in their way.

Israel uses direct aggression, riflemen, APCs, tanks, fast air, rotary wing aircraft you name it.