[Zipperfish]

The Bible says a lot of things. A lot of them are directly contradictory. So really you can argue pretty much any point of view you please with plenty of scriptural justification. I imagine the same is true of the Koran. That's why I've never found arguments based on scripture very convincing.

[Gunnair]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

The Bible says a lot of things. A lot of them are directly contradictory. So really you can argue pretty much any point of view you please with plenty of scriptural justification. I imagine the same is true of the Koran. That's why I've never found arguments based on scripture very convincing.

There is that. You can clearly see that excerpts can be cherry picked to support an agenda.

[ShepherdsDog]

that's because it was patched together from disparate sources, that have been revised, re translated, reinterpreted, rewritten and rejected more than a few times

[Gunnair]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

that's because it was patched together from disparate sources, that have been revised, re translated, reinterpreted, rewritten and rejected more than a few times

Yep. It's handy I suppose since you can use it to support peace or violence depending on the flavor of the day.

Just like Islam.

[ShepherdsDog]

Islam claims the Koran to be the unadulterated and unchanged word of God. Most Christians are aware that the Bible was written by imperfect men trying to comprehend the will of their God. The Muslim view on their scripture is ridiculous just like the Catholic view of papal infallibility.

[Zipperfish]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

that's because it was patched together from disparate sources, that have been revised, re translated, reinterpreted, rewritten and rejected more than a few times

Yes, from what I gather, the Old Testament was originally Aramaic, and then translated to Hebrew and then Greek. I imagine there was probably some cultural context at the time that has not survived multiple translations and 6000 years. Then there was the big decision, at some point, as to which sacred texts would constitute and which would be tossed.

The God of Abraham and the God of Jesus and the God that most North Americans would identify with today are three different deities in my opinion.

[ShepherdsDog]

The God of Abraham was recently single when the Hebrews left Sumeria and headed west. Just look at how Christianity has changed from being an offshoot of Judaism, going from a monotheistic faith to its current Trinitarian form.

[Gunnair]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

Islam claims the Koran to be the unadulterated and unchanged word of God. Most Christians are aware that the Bible was written by imperfect men trying to comprehend the will of their God. The Muslim view on their scripture is ridiculous just like the Catholic view of papal infallibility.

As much as I agree, that 46% believing in literal Biblical creation is a telling number.

[Gunnair]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

The God of Abraham was recently single when the Hebrews left Sumeria and headed west. Just look at how Christianity has changed from being an offshoot of Judaism, going from a monotheistic faith to its current Trinitarian form.

There are so many offshoots even Trinitarian is but one group albeit the largest one.

[N_Fiddledog]

Gunnair Gunnair:

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Gunnair Gunnair:

I did. Read again.

I beg your pardon. You did. At the bottom of one of your insult laden screeds you said.

$1:

As for the surveys, well, I'm waiting. I'll live with the results.

By the way, I magnanimously accept your tear stained apology. Now go off and make me a sammich while I read!

Gutless twerp. Who are you trying to impress.

I accepted your challenge, and showed you a Pew Research Poll claiming more than 250 million Muslims believe suicide and other violence against civilians is at least sometimes justified, and perhaps more than that.

You wanted it. You got it. So dig down deep into your yellow gutless spine and just admit you lost, and don't have anything like the guts, facts, or knowledge to meet my counter-challenge.

[Gunnair]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Gunnair Gunnair:

By the way, I magnanimously accept your tear stained apology. Now go off and make me a sammich while I read!

Gutless twerp. Who are you trying to impress.

I accepted your challenge, and showed you a Pew Research Poll claiming more than 250 million Muslims believe suicide and other violence against civilians is at least sometimes justified, and perhaps more than that.

You wanted it. You got it. So dig down deep into your yellow gutless spine and just admit you lost, and don't have anything like the guts, facts, or knowledge to meet my counter-challenge.

Wow...such a meltdown.

Why would I admit I've lost when I haven't even reviewed it yet?

Give me some time to review your post before you knot up your panties over it.

Funny though, it still doesn't really address my original point to you.

I will address the moral equivalency point though. I don't recall stating there was a moral equivalency between radical Islam and say Christian US. You'll not that this originally started with a drive by shot poking fun at the religion of peace. What little I've read of your links so far suggests the majority of the 1.6 billion Muslims fall into the more traditional view that Islam is a religion of peace - or at least are moderate Muslims (a distinction you even volunteered once you were called on your ridiculous generalization). I certainly have no issue pointing out that those that enjoy making such generalizations forget the history, the very recent history relatively speaking, of Christian western countries - say less than 100 to 150 years. In essance, those who generalize without taking the actions in their cultural and socio-econic context sound a lot like some fat dude who dropped 50 kg who now makes fun of fat people. In other words, born again secularists are simply unbearable to listen to when faced with old school tribal religious fundies like their own cultures were at one time.

Not much more complicated than that.

But I'll get back to you after I've read th links at home. You can be patient or pissy - your call.

[Xort]

Brenda Brenda:

Let me rephrase then.

So Catholics are child molesters, (and child molesters are Catholic only)
black men are thieves (or thugs, whichever you prefer), (and thieves are black men only)
Mexicans are drug dealers, (and drug dealers are Mexican only)
black women are ghettofabulous, (and ghettofabulous are only black women)
white men in a suit are white collar criminals (and white collar criminals are only white men).

Better?

No that's not better, you seem to fail to understand the concept.

Here let me write out a correct version.

The Catholic Church has protected child molesting priests in the past and credible evidence points towards a modern continuation of the practice. The Catholic Church has denounced child molesting publicly but their actions don't match their words, as the practices of protection seem to be on going. While the number of priests that have molested children is a small number, the Church's claim to absolute moral authority in all aspects of mortal life and a fair number of aspects of the immortal afterlife, raises the standard the Church can be measured against. Child molesters are not only found in the Catholic Church, however the number of molesters in the Church and the Church's actions to protect them cast them in a far worse light than they would otherwise find themselves.

Black men in the USA commit a disproportionate number of crimes to any other demographic grouping in the USA. Even when all possible factors that can be control for are, black still come out on top as the most criminal grouping. The collective black community has not come forward with a unified stance against violence and crime. The majority or maybe the most vocal leaders of the black community seem more interested in blaming whites for the actions of blacks, then any sort of acceptance that they have a problem within their community. Not all crimes are committed by blacks in the USA. However, the rate of criminality is hugely higher than other groups, and the failure of the community leadership to accept their crime problem leaves the black community with little chance of improvement.

~

And so on.

[Public_Domain]

[Benn]

Why do you think they go after schools and are so against them? Because if people get at least a grade 6 education most will figure out the extremist population of their religion is full of crap and perverting the religion. Same goes for any extremists, religious or political, who don't like education.

[BartSimpson]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Just like Islam.

You have no problems throwing stones at Christians and Christianity so why is it that you seem to have difficulties seeing anything wrong with the 'religion of peace' when according to you Christianity is "Just like Islam."...hmmm?