[andyt]

Sure. In their own mind Al Qaeda was fighting for the freedom to bring about a worldwide caliphate. But a freedom fighter is someone defending his country from an invader.

I'm sure Al Qaeda might have a few people in Libya, but the majority seems to be Libyans fighting to overthrow a repressive regime.

[DerbyX]

andyt andyt:

Sure. In their own mind Al Qaeda was fighting for the freedom to bring about a worldwide caliphate. But a freedom fighter is someone defending his country from an invader.

I'm sure Al Qaeda might have a few people in Libya, but the majority seems to be Libyans fighting to overthrow a repressive regime.

That is just untrue. This world wide caliphate is just a tin foiler nonsense. Sure some of them long for the day when islam is the only religion. Plenty of that for a variety of religions ....

They don't hate us for our freedom or our religion or our secular decadent lifestyle.

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn ... /terrorism

What about the repressive regimes WE HAVE supported? In Egypt there is a great deal of anti-US sentiment specifically because the US supported Mubarak. Hell I work with an Egyptian coptic Christian (one who pooh-pahs the idea of the radicals taking power) and she explained why there was so much anti-US sentiment.

[raydan]

How to hijack a thread, you two.

[andyt]

DerbyX DerbyX:

That is just untrue. This world wide caliphate is just a tin foiler nonsense. Sure some of them long for the day when islam is the only religion. Plenty of that for a variety of religions ....

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Bin Laden was one of those foilers. Well his primary aim was to establish it in Saudia Arabia, but what's good for SA is good for the world.

[DerbyX]

raydan raydan:

How to hijack a thread, you two.

There are still some 2 or 3 other threads. Far from hijacking this thread bares relevance but on CKA many many threads head down this road. Debates evolve.

[EyeBrock]

DerbyX DerbyX:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Yea, side with Bin laden over the evil Yanks. Mmmmm.

Worked when the Yanks were siding (not to mention training and aiding) with that very same guy fighting the evil Commies.

You had a better plan for victory in the Cold War? Please, tell us all about it.

[DerbyX]

andyt andyt:

DerbyX DerbyX:

That is just untrue. This world wide caliphate is just a tin foiler nonsense. Sure some of them long for the day when islam is the only religion. Plenty of that for a variety of religions ....

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Bin Laden was one of those foilers. Well his primary aim was to establish it in Saudia Arabia, but what's good for SA is good for the world.

That's crap. He wanted the US out of Saudia Arabia. He certainly wasn't trying to establish a caliphate there. Why would he? It already is a bastion of islamic ideology.

This is no different the NAU stuff or bildeberg or illuminat or a Jewish Banking hegemony.

I'm sure like most religious people out there, they all want to see a day when their religion spreads its "truth" to all the world.

We have Christians on this very forum who think that way and believe that eventually JC will return and all that theological stuff.

[Choban]

$1:

They aren't using any tactics in war we wouldn't if we felt our home was under grave threat

Suicide bombings?

[DerbyX]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

DerbyX DerbyX:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Yea, side with Bin laden over the evil Yanks. Mmmmm.

Worked when the Yanks were siding (not to mention training and aiding) with that very same guy fighting the evil Commies.

You had a better plan for victory in the Cold War? Please, tell us all about it.

OH. It was about winning the cold war? Now we cheer on those same old Russkies when they fight against the same type of people in Afghanistan except in Chechnya.

Oh and their plan, "their" being anybody you'd like to think, for defeating us? Watch us go broke fighting our little war on terror.

[DerbyX]

Choban Choban:

$1:

They aren't using any tactics in war we wouldn't if we felt our home was under grave threat

Suicide bombings?

Faced with an enemy occupying our lands in strength we have little ability to defeat? I'd say yes. No reason to believe we wouldn't do the same fighting for home and kin.

[EyeBrock]

On the troll again Derby?

[PublicAnimalNo9]

DerbyX DerbyX:

andyt andyt:

You really want to go there with Bin Laden? I can see your argument for the Taliban in Afghanistan (which of course many people can't manage to separate from Al Qaeda).

Yet it was the CIA who trained OBL. They were the ones skulking around and not fighting by the rules of war in their proxy war with the US.

To expect anybody to adhere to our "rules of war" is just complete BS when our side simply ignores then whenever we find them inconvenient.

I hate to say but in some small part I agree with you.
However, I think the term "rules of war" is completely idiotic.
War is the biggest obscenity man has ever come up with. It is the most uncivilized act we commit and yet somehow we insist on having "rules" to keep things fair.
War isn't a sport. It's dirty, nasty, ugly and anyone that thinks we can civilize war is a dreamer.
Let's look at just one example of where society and war have very different rules for the same act.
Shooting a criminal in the back while he runs away will land you in some serious shit. Shooting an enemy soldier in the back while he runs away simply adds to your tally with the added bonus that he can't come back to fight another day.

I honestly think the only time you really see any civility and respect for "rules" between combatants is when there isn't a huge cultural divide between them.
WW2 is a great example of that. Despite the nazis being the bastards that they were, there were many acts of civility that occurred, on BOTH sides, primarily because there were some similarities in culture. If we move to the Pacific theatre, not so much went on in the way of civility between the Japanese and the Americans. Why? Different race, different culture.
I honestly believe that when armed conflict arises between two cultures that are just so vastly different from each other, the hatred level skyrockets as the respect level plummets. And with that hate, the temptation to cross the line grows as well. It's not an excuse. Unfortunately, it's human nature.
Although in this particular case, the hatred isn't so much cultural as Bin Laden was just such a huge, fucking asshole. He was a cancer on the world, and there's only one way to deal with cancer!

[andyt]

DerbyX DerbyX:

andyt andyt:

DerbyX DerbyX:

That is just untrue. This world wide caliphate is just a tin foiler nonsense. Sure some of them long for the day when islam is the only religion. Plenty of that for a variety of religions ....

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Bin Laden was one of those foilers. Well his primary aim was to establish it in Saudia Arabia, but what's good for SA is good for the world.

That's crap. He wanted the US out of Saudia Arabia. He certainly wasn't trying to establish a caliphate there. Why would he? It already is a bastion of islamic ideology.

This is no different the NAU stuff or bildeberg or illuminat or a Jewish Banking hegemony.

I'm sure like most religious people out there, they all want to see a day when their religion spreads its "truth" to all the world.

We have Christians on this very forum who think that way and believe that eventually JC will return and all that theological stuff.

Going over the top again, are you?

Try to follow along, it's not difficult. Bin Laden wanted the US out of SA. Yes. Why do you think he wanted them out of SA? Because he wanted to develop a resort where their base was? Nooooo. He wanted to overthrow the house of Saud and create a caliphate in SA, that would eventually extend all over the world. Why do you think so many people followed him - because they believed in that bullshit.

Since daddy was in tight with house of Saud, I'm thinking little Osama didn't get enough fatherly love in his childhood. Difficult, I guess, when you're one of 57.

[DerbyX]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

On the troll again Derby?

Nope. Just responding to your line of debate where I'm on OBL's side because I think its ridiculous to think our enemies are somehow being unfair be not dressing up in uniforms for us to see when there are loads of examples of our side doing the same thing when it was needed.

Pointing out that the CIA (not in uniform) was not only helping but training this guy seems very reasonable in this line of debate.

[DerbyX]

andyt andyt:

Going over the top again, are you?

Try to follow along, it's not difficult. Bin Laden wanted the US out of SA. Yes. Why do you think he wanted them out of SA? Because he wanted to develop a resort where their base was? Nooooo. He wanted to overthrow the house of Saud and create a caliphate in SA, that would eventually extend all over the world. Why do you think so many people followed him - because they believed in that bullshit.

Since daddy was in tight with house of Saud, I'm thinking little Osama didn't get enough fatherly love in his childhood. Difficult, I guess, when you're one of 57.

Over the top? Hardly.

Hell Obama is being accused of trying to create a Caliphate!

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&clien ... 3F&spell=1

He may have wanted to take over his homeland and run it like he wanted (wow, how unusual) but the global Caliphate thing is just the same tin foiler crap.