[DerbyX]

Don't bet on it. Harper unpopularity, incompetence, and downright untrustworthiness are adding up daily. Iggys bus trip around the nation is winning him points and is a primary reason why the Libs are gaining in strength.

[Lemmy]

There are three major problems with the federal Liberals right now:

1. They have no platform. Iggy has never put forth a reason to vote Liberal beyond the "Harper is bad" argument. He's right, Harper's terrible, but Iggy needs to explain why he's different and, in nearly two years as leader, he's done nothing to elevate himself. At least Dion had a platform. No one liked it, but at least he had one.

2. Some skills are transferable, some aren't.

Iggy is an intelligent professor. He's a really good writer and academic. But that doesn't make him a leader. Elections aren't won or lost on votes by rabid supporters of either party. It's clear, even on CKA, that there are many who will vote Liberal or CPC no matter what. You folks don't impact the election results. It's people, like myself, who are typically undecided until right up to election day that swing the balance. If Iggy hopes to swing the non-partisan vote his way, he needs to demonstrate that his skills are transferable to the task of leading government. He hasn't done anything to convince me of that.

3. As EyeBrock alluded, Bob Rae can't garner any support in Ontario. The larger problem for the Liberals is there aren't any heirs apparent. If Iggy can't draw enough support to form a government (and I'm certain he can't) then who? Jean Charet and Brian Tobin aren't interested in the job. Ontario's got too many seats for Rae to stand a chance. Justin Trudeau's a moron. So who's left? The Liberals have no prospects in their minor-league system.

The only thing the Liberals have going for them right now is Stephen Harper. If the CPC had even a half-decent leader, the Liberals would really be in the shit.

[EyeBrock]

I'd say that was an excellent summation of the political landscape in Canada Lemmy.

[EyeBrock]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Don't bet on it. Harper unpopularity, incompetence, and downright untrustworthiness are adding up daily. Iggys bus trip around the nation is winning him points and is a primary reason why the Libs are gaining in strength.

You really can't get out of partisan tub-thumping mode can you?

[DerbyX]

Lemmy Lemmy:

There are three major problems with the federal Liberals right now:

1. They have no platform. Iggy has never put forth a reason to vote Liberal beyond the "Harper is bad" argument. He's right, Harper's terrible, but Iggy needs to explain why he's different and, in nearly two years as leader, he's done nothing to elevate himself. At least Dion had a platform. No one liked it, but at least he had one.

Well Harper had less then nothing for a platform last election and it didn't hurt him. I think platforms are simply not read or understood by the vast majority of voters, mores the pity.

Lemmy Lemmy:

2. Iggy is an intelligent professor. He's a really good writer and academic. But that doesn't make him a leader. Elections aren't won or lost on votes by rabid supporters of either party. It's clear, even on CKA, that there are many who will vote Liberal or CPC no matter what. You folks don't impact the election results. It's people, like myself, who are typically undecided until right up to election day that swing the balance. If Iggy hopes to swing the non-partisan vote his way, he needs to demonstrate that his skills are transferable to the task of leading government. He hasn't done anything to convince me of that.

Except that within the swing votes are groups of people who swing towards a party based on a specific stance (when all the other factors are even. With you its likely taxes and government spending/controlling waste. With Boots & Scape its a strong defence platform. Others might not support a party based on its stance to controversial stuff like SSM or abortion rights.

Iggy might not be convincing you but as you have said in the past, the Libs were bad at economic but Harper has been worse. Will you make your vote a protest vote (like Boots) or support a candidate you know to be very bad at something you feely is important?

In addition, I think a lot of the swing vote comes from people who vote with the candidate least likely to suck rather then the best. A few seats might even be won by people who are actually voting for a specific MP to represent them rather then a specific party.

Lemmy Lemmy:

3. As EyeBrock alluded, Bob Rae can't garner any support in Ontario. The larger problem for the Liberals is there aren't any heirs apparent. If Iggy can't draw enough support to form a government (and I'm certain he can't) then who? Jean Charet and Brian Tobin aren't interested in the job. Ontario's got too many seats for Rae to stand a chance. Justin Trudeau's a moron. So who's left? The Liberals have no prospects in their minor-league system.

Given that most of the con hacks here say Libs will vote Lib regardless, the choice of leader doesn't matter however threehundredeight.com did an analysis on potential Liberal leaders a while back and I think it showed Bob Rae with a surprising amount of support behind him (although this might have been "to lead a coalition".

Iggys just now getting people to warm to him. The Liberals made a mistake bailing in DIon so soon. How long did it take Harper? He was in as Alliance leader in 2002, a former MP in Reform for a few years and leader of the CPC in 2004. A lot of years in opposition before winning his first minority.

Iggy may not get enough support to form a direct government but if Harper drops as much in support as the polls keep showing he won't be able to lead either. In that circumstance a coalition or informal partnership looks much better and Harper will be outside looking in on the party in short order. The best the CPC can manage as a replacement will be Peter Mackay and he won't win. Chretien had very low popularity too as I recall and Jack Layton gains everyday but the election results for both of them tell a different tale.

Lemmy Lemmy:

The only thing the Liberals have going for them right now is Stephen Harper. If the CPC had even a half-decent leader, the Liberals would really be in the shit.

I'm not so sure its as much the leader as it is their position on things like SSM & abortion. I believe their lack of support is a direct result of people knowing that the CPC cannot be trusted on those 2 issues.

[DerbyX]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

DerbyX DerbyX:

Don't bet on it. Harper unpopularity, incompetence, and downright untrustworthiness are adding up daily. Iggys bus trip around the nation is winning him points and is a primary reason why the Libs are gaining in strength.

You really can't get out of partisan tub-thumping mode can you?

Says the guy beating the war drums daily for the CPC.

[hurley_108]

Lemmy Lemmy:

3. As EyeBrock alluded, Bob Rae can't garner any support in Ontario. The larger problem for the Liberals is there aren't any heirs apparent. If Iggy can't draw enough support to form a government (and I'm certain he can't) then who? Jean Charet and Brian Tobin aren't interested in the job. Ontario's got too many seats for Rae to stand a chance. Justin Trudeau's a moron. So who's left? The Liberals have no prospects in their minor-league system.

I was hoping Gerard Kennedy would win the convention that saw Dion become leader. He's still around, and he got to the second ballot, and two of the three guys ahead of him are either gone or will be gone in the event of another leadership race. I haven't heard of any baggage he might be carrying, but I have no doubt the Conservatives would come up with some muck to throw if Harper outlives Iggy...

$1:

The only thing the Liberals have going for them right now is Stephen Harper. If the CPC had even a half-decent leader, the Liberals would really be in the shit.

I think you're right here. If Clement had won instead of Harper, things might be different. He seems a bit more level-headed.

[EyeBrock]

DerbyX DerbyX:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

DerbyX DerbyX:

Don't bet on it. Harper unpopularity, incompetence, and downright untrustworthiness are adding up daily. Iggys bus trip around the nation is winning him points and is a primary reason why the Libs are gaining in strength.

You really can't get out of partisan tub-thumping mode can you?

Says the guy beating the war drums daily for the CPC.

Hey, I call the Tories out when I don't like what they do. I've said many times that Harper is the least shite of a shit bunch.

You on the other hand....

[Lemmy]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Iggy might not be convincing you but as you have said in the past, the Libs were bad at economic but Harper has been worse. Will you make your vote a protest vote (like Boots) or support a candidate you know to be very bad at something you feely is important?

I live in a riding that will elect a conservative no matter what, so my vote isn't of much value. My MP is Gary Schellenberger, who has the personality of Vladimir Lenin's preserved corpse. As I said before, I will likely vote Green in the next election as a protest vote.

[ASLplease]

ive recently moved to a liberal riding, im going to enjoy cancelling out a liberal vote with my vote. it may not affect the outcome but it still affects the numbers.

[DerbyX]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Hey, I call the Tories out when I don't like what they do. I've said many times that Harper is the least shite of a shit bunch.

You on the other hand....

You hate pretty much all politicians so that isn't saying anything. You are still a dyed in the wool conservative with nary a thought of voting anything else. When you criticize the CPC its along the lines of "shits but still the best shits out of a pile of shit". OTOH, criticism of the Libs (or NDP/Green) is exceedingly more venomous and specific. You may have your reasons, such as defence priorities, but you certainly aren't an equal opportunity swing voter.

I on the other hand have posted at length at my willingness to work with other parties both formally and informally. I'll NEVER vote CPC or anything remotely conservative but once upon a time I did indeed post that the Libs and CPC should design a platform that is a mixture of either party but that was before Harper illustrated his faults in technicolour.

Unlike a few of my fellow Libs I will support a coalition with the NDP/Greens, a partnership, or even an outright merger. If the NDP were running second in my riding, I'd vote for them. I might not vote for a green candidate but I certainly support them getting a say in government. I have made it abundantly clear why I will not support the CPC and the issues because of it.

What you really mean to say when you call me a vote only Lib is you are pissed off Harper isn't going to win a majority and you blame us Libs for not voting the way you want.

[DerbyX]

Lemmy Lemmy:

DerbyX DerbyX:

Iggy might not be convincing you but as you have said in the past, the Libs were bad at economic but Harper has been worse. Will you make your vote a protest vote (like Boots) or support a candidate you know to be very bad at something you feely is important?

I live in a riding that will elect a conservative no matter what, so my vote isn't of much value. My MP is Gary Schellenberger, who has the personality of Vladimir Lenin's preserved corpse. As I said before, I will likely vote Green in the next election as a protest vote.

That sucks. I can't recall what your stance was to PR. Our system is supposed to be one where people elect the best representative for their riding but the reality is that overwhelmingly we vote based on party and leader even though our votes only go to electing a specific MP.

[EyeBrock]

DerbyX DerbyX:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Hey, I call the Tories out when I don't like what they do. I've said many times that Harper is the least shite of a shit bunch.

You on the other hand....

You hate pretty much all politicians so that isn't saying anything. You are still a dyed in the wool conservative with nary a thought of voting anything else. When you criticize the CPC its along the lines of "shits but still the best shits out of a pile of shit". OTOH, criticism of the Libs (or NDP/Green) is exceedingly more venomous and specific. You may have your reasons, such as defence priorities, but you certainly aren't an equal opportunity swing voter.

I on the other hand have posted at length at my willingness to work with other parties both formally and informally. I'll NEVER vote CPC or anything remotely conservative but once upon a time I did indeed post that the Libs and CPC should design a platform that is a mixture of either party but that was before Harper illustrated his faults in technicolour.

Unlike a few of my fellow Libs I will support a coalition with the NDP/Greens, a partnership, or even an outright merger. If the NDP were running second in my riding, I'd vote for them. I might not vote for a green candidate but I certainly support them getting a say in government. I have made it abundantly clear why I will not support the CPC and the issues because of it.

What you really mean to say when you call me a vote only Lib is you are pissed off Harper isn't going to win a majority and you blame us Libs for not voting the way you want.

Yea right. Rabid as ever.

[DerbyX]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Yea right. Rabid as ever.

Truth hurts? You seem to think you are some fair minded political voter willing to give each side a shake. Nobody who says they would punch out a politician if they met one in a bar is willing to do that and nobody who has said the things you have said about the Liberals will give them a chance.

Be proud of being a dyed in the wool hyper-conservative. I'm not the least bit ashamed of being a liberal or a card carrying member of the Liberal party.

[EyeBrock]

Yawn. You always seem to miss the point Derby. It's time to put you back on 'ignore'.