[N_Fiddledog]

andyt andyt:

Republicons are not opposed to health care for all, as long as it doesn't cost anything. Just as they are not opposed to many social programs, they just don't want to pay taxes to support that. They just live in la la land that way, ever since Reagan.

Actually it isn't just Republicans who are opposed to Obamacare.

In Connecticut for example...

$1:

* Connecticut residents oppose the current bills in Congress by a margin of 51-34 percent

*More than three-quarters of voters, 77 percent, say they are very concerned or somewhat concerned that changes in health care will result in more government spending, higher taxes, and a bigger budget deficit. 61% described theselves as “very concerned” about these possibilities

http://www.yankeeinstitute.org/2010/01/ ... re-reform/

Wasn't Connecticut also a blue state in the last federal election?

[andyt]

No you're right. 'Mericuns are brainwashed, and basically have a "I'm alright, I'm in the lifeboat" mentality. Until they actually get sick and have to use that health care for something serious, and are denied it because of a pre-existing condition, or the insurer sues them to get the money back. Or they lost their job.

As I said before, nobody ever accused Americans of being the brightest bulbs in the chandelier

[Thanos]

I wonder how long into the 2012 Repulsican primaries it'll take for Palin/Pawlenty/Jindal/etc to start smearing Romney for implementing his nazi fascist commie socialism medical plan that ruined Massacrewcut. After all the teabagger blurprint will demand that this happens.

[N_Fiddledog]

Thanos Thanos:

I wonder how long into the 2012 Repulsican primaries it'll take for Palin/Pawlenty/Jindal/etc to start smearing Romney for implementing his nazi fascist commie socialism medical plan that ruined Massacrewcut. After all the teabagger blurprint will demand that this happens.

I'm starting to worry about you Thanos. I get such a kick out of those great, lengthy, hate-the-right rants of yours. They make me chuckle.

Lately though they're getting a little repetitive, and old. You need some new ammo. I can help.

I don't have a link, but there's this new move to organize the tea party movement as a single cohesive unit. There's a national convention coming up. It's starting to look like the guys behind it might be corrupt. It's for profit. Sarah is the keynote speaker. You should check it out. There's some great ranting points coming up, I think.

Also, Glenn Beck is pushing a new drug. He's revealing it today. Basically he wants to turn the word "progressive" into a cuss word. He says he's going to reveal history they don't tell you. I see an opportunity for a "revisionist" rant. It sounds like he's going to push this one hard for at least the next week. Oh, and he'll be going into the Hitler - left or right argument. He says left, of course. You can work with that, right?

There you go Bud. Fresh material. A couple of friendly hints from your buddy on the Right.

[Zipperfish]

commanderkai commanderkai:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Don't fall into the partisan trap, commander. A healthy (no pun intended) dose of respect for both sides from both sides would probably do more to further this debate than any of the foaming-at-the-mouth rhetoric we keep seeing.

I agree with you, both sides need to start respecting each other. I might not agree with cap and tax, or the current US health care reform proposal, but I can understand and respect those who do. We, for example, don't agree over the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, but neither of us start tossing out insults and accusations over it.

That being said, it's frustrating when you do see so much rhetoric, especially since the last year or so. Maybe there was this sort of rhetoric during the Bush years, but I guess I was oblivious or contented since my "party" was in power.

It is frustrating. And maddeningly easy to fall into the "rhetoric rut." I should know--I do myself now and again. And inevitably regret it.

The basiuc fact is, the assumption that republicans are evil (or Democrats) is just wrong. Demonstrably so. So you're starting off from a completely wrong assumption, and you're bound to get nothing but wrong conclsuions from that.

In fact Republicans (or Conservatives)--are actually quite concerned with the well-being of their respective nations and want to make them better. As do Democrats. When you start off with the base assumption with the good intent of the other side, you've got a common ground from which to work.

Anyways, I think that's why me and Bart--quite far apart politically--can still regularly raise a virtual toast on here after all these years. He assumes I'm basically a good guy (I think) and vice versa.

[N_Fiddledog]

Stop being so damned reasonable Zip. It's easier to be the rational one when you guys rant.

[Zipperfish]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Stop being so damned reasonable Zip. It's easier to be the rational one when you guys rant.

Except for you Fiddle. You drink the blood of liberals for breakfast.

[commanderkai]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Stop being so damned reasonable Zip. It's easier to be the rational one when you guys rant.

Except for you Fiddle. You drink the blood of liberals for breakfast.

I thought it was kittens and babies...oh shit I need to empty the fridge!

Technically, I don't think the Democrats are evil, and I don't think the Republicans are evil (that was sarcasm...wait, did it come off as serious?) but it does feel like some anti-Republican bashing (which I identify more with than the CPC, due to more of my teenage years being spent in Michigan and not Ontario or Quebec) lately seems rather...extreme, even from posters who are commonly level headed in any other topic.

Hey, it could be worse...I could totally change, wear a Che shirt, and start actually giving a damn about student politics...*Shudder*

[Proculation]

andyt andyt:

It's not working because it still uses private insurers and just subsidies people by making those how already have health care pay more tax. As long as the insurance companies are in there, it's never going to be a financially effective system. Why give so much profit to the insurers, when govt can do it so much more cheaply?

Republicons are not opposed to health care for all, as long as it doesn't cost anything. Just as they are not opposed to many social programs, they just don't want to pay taxes to support that. They just live in la la land that way, ever since Reagan.

From what I understand, a big problem with private insurers is the state laws themselves: there are regulations to protect them so people are not free to choose the insurer they want. Basically, people are restricted in their choice. I've read in some small counties, some insurers even have the monopoly. So DEregulations should be enforced, not regulations. But, the private insurers are quite generous to the politicians' campaign... That's crony capitalism at work instead of free market.

[N_Fiddledog]

So, on Scott Brown, and his relationship, if any, with the tea party...

$1:

Scott Brown has managed to take Ted Kennedy’s former seat in Massachusetts and swing the independent voters from the Democrats to the GOP.

The right is pleased with itself, especially the tea party movement. They believe that by electing Brown, they have driven a stake through the heart of the health care vampire.

Unfortunately — like any horror story — the villain may yet live. Democrats had already begun drafting contingency plans for Brown’s election when things started looking bad. They will consider every possible trick in the book before considering the white flag.

Conservatives may in fact be better positioned should the Democrats continue their arrogant ways and push through health care (which will probably be the Senate plan now). If the president and his party ignore the overwhelming anger of the American people, it will be curtains for many Democrats.

Alas, political observers — including this one — think that the liberals who control the Democratic Party are so dedicated to the cause of universal health care that they will sacrifice as many seats as necessary. They have been waiting 30 or more years for the right opportunity to push their socialist agenda, and would rather go down in flames than step back.

The tea party movement now has a big problem. They have thrown their lot behind a RINO in the form of Scott Brown, a man who voted for RomneyCare. Brown leans further left than Dede Scozzafava. Now the RINOs will point to his victory and see it as a sign that their “moderate” ways are vote winners, and all the angst that should be directed at the RINOs — for helping get us in this mess in the first place — may dissipate. Will conservatives be able to make a case for primary challengers against the RINOs for 2010? Will their short-term pragmatism prove too clever by half in the long run? After all, Brown did not thank the tea party movement in his victory speech, despite the many tea partiers who helped him win.

Will tea party movement conservatives be able to guide the Republican Party in the wake of a RINO being elected in Kennedy’s old seat? And what has this whole campaign done to the movement that tries to proclaim itself to be non-partisan? When the Republican Party needed them, the tea party movement fell into line. How can the movement proclaim its independence when it has just stumped for a Republican who is not even a conservative?

This special election has been a gift to the Republicans in their quest to co-opt the tea party. Surely it would be ironic if Ted Kennedy in death helped the Republican Party get back to electability. Yet Kennedy may have delivered lapsed Republicans back to the party, and split the tea party movement so it is no longer as big a threat to both parties.

Ultimately, if the tea party movement wants to see the House and the Senate spurn its liberal Democrats, they should hope for shenanigans. Voters have very short memories, and this vote for Brown may placate them. In victory, the tea party movement must continue to press its message of limited government, fiscal conservatism, and the free market.

They need to quickly return to the task at hand. Scott Brown’s election does not render the April 15 rallies less important. The movement needs to keep its eye and pressure on elected officials in D.C., and they also need to make sure Brown is seated as soon as possible.

It is up to the tea party movement regarding whether this will be merely a Pyrrhic victory in the long campaign against the socialist agenda. This is one small gain — possibly even a temporary one if Brown votes as he did in Massachusetts — in the long quest to return the U.S. back to its constitutional roots of prudent governance.

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/what-now-f ... parties/2/