[Red_Eye]

I think about belief is that theres a fear about being wrong of a certain arrogance of being right. Either way, we don't like as humans being on the wrong side of an issue. So we tend to hold are ground and push the other in our direction.

the polite ones walk on eggshells

[travior]

I cringe every time someone says it was "God's will" when a tragedy strikes. It is never his will to see his people suffer. It is never his will for a child to die. What he DOES do, IMO, is use the event to get the attention of others, to make them realize that nothing is gauranteed.

I had a good friend in high school that was diagnosed with leuchemia right after graduation. Great fotbal player and student, class president, full scholarship to play at NC State. He died after a couple of years. But the work he did with children was awsome during those two years. He said that after seeing the difference he made in the lives of those kids, he does not regret anything that happened to him.

Too many people have the false belief that once you become a Christian that everything will be okay. God never promised us an easy life, and in fact said that we would constantly be tested. It is how you overcome the obsticles that are thrown into your path.

Sorry... that was even sounding a bit rambling to me. Too tired. 5 min before leaving work! Ready for ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ! Hopefully I will make more sense tomorrow

[Blue_Nose]

dog77_1999 dog77_1999:

There might be a scientific explaination on why the mechanism happens, but ultimatly, why is there a mechanism?

You can ask "why" about a lot of things, but that doesn't mean there's necessarily an answer, nor does it in any way logically follow to label the answer "God". Your "believer" answer, therefore, is in no way rational, anymore than people who believe bad weather is caused by angry Gods are being rational.

This "God of the gaps" argument really has no merit, since you're simply attributing things to God arbitrarily out of ignorance, even if that ignorance extends throughout the entire human population.

[romanP]

travior travior:

I cringe every time someone says it was "God's will" when a tragedy strikes. It is never his will to see his people suffer. It is never his will for a child to die. What he DOES do, IMO, is use the event to get the attention of others, to make them realize that nothing is gauranteed.

Of course it's God's will. God doesn't have feelings, God just is. Things happen because of God.

$1:

Too many people have the false belief that once you become a Christian that everything will be okay. God never promised us an easy life, and in fact said that we would constantly be tested. It is how you overcome the obsticles that are thrown into your path.

God never promised anything at all.

[romanP]

Red_Eye Red_Eye:

I think about belief is that theres a fear about being wrong of a certain arrogance of being right. Either way, we don't like as humans being on the wrong side of an issue. So we tend to hold are ground and push the other in our direction.

the polite ones walk on eggshells

Belief is a dangerous thing. It is often a sign that one has stopped thinking about an aspect of reality.

[Zipperfish]

romanP romanP:

Red_Eye Red_Eye:

I think about belief is that theres a fear about being wrong of a certain arrogance of being right. Either way, we don't like as humans being on the wrong side of an issue. So we tend to hold are ground and push the other in our direction.

the polite ones walk on eggshells

Belief is a dangerous thing. It is often a sign that one has stopped thinking about an aspect of reality.

Don't you have to "believe" there is no God in the same way yopu have to "believe" there is one? Is there not an element of faith in acceptign science?

[Arctic_Menace]

$1:

We know it just like our body knows to beat the heart. It just does it on its own without our control.

It's interesting to note that with the power of the mind, one can slow down their heart-beat with training...So, as a matter of fact, we can control it...

$1:

What he DOES do, IMO, is use the event to get the attention of others, to make them realize that nothing is gauranteed.

So what your saying is that God is a mob boss making sure you know your place? Nice.

[romanP]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

romanP romanP:

Red_Eye Red_Eye:

I think about belief is that theres a fear about being wrong of a certain arrogance of being right. Either way, we don't like as humans being on the wrong side of an issue. So we tend to hold are ground and push the other in our direction.

the polite ones walk on eggshells

Belief is a dangerous thing. It is often a sign that one has stopped thinking about an aspect of reality.

Don't you have to "believe" there is no God in the same way yopu have to "believe" there is one? Is there not an element of faith in acceptign science?

I don't believe in God. I'm not certain that there is a divine creator of the universe. I just think it sounds like a good idea, since there is no other explanation yet.

As for science, it is a rational faith. Theories are tested, retested and pushed to their limits, and this tells us that the things we've discovered are true, but that we don't know everything and there is always more to be done. We believe in Einstein's theory of relativity because we can use it to build technology, and it gives us a basis to continue learning about our universe.

[ShintoMale]

dog77_1999 dog77_1999:

Brenda Brenda:

Why should I have to put myself in the shoes of a believer? "the believer" (you in this case...) don't try to put yourself in the shoes of a non-believer...

Religion is not the only truth, and neither is Atheism. It is a choice, though...

I said that to avoid a potential conflict. Nothing is worse than a vs religion ebattle.

I have put myself in both shoes. As a believer, what I just said makes sense. As a non-believer, I would say it is genetic knowledge passed down from person to person. We know it just like our body knows to beat the heart. It just does it on its own without our control.

Are these two interpretation any different from each other? Not really. I believe the Spirit lives inside all of us and guiding us to be good people. A consious if you will. There might be a scientific explaination on why the mechanism happens, but ultimatly, why is there a mechanism?

It's a real problem on both sides. Science and religion are one in the same.

wrong science who explain stuff in the natural, physical world. religion only deals with the supernatural and stuff outside the physical world

[Blue_Nose]

Usually the distinction is made between rationality and faith - they're both beliefs, but they're not the same thing.

A scientist "believes" that the force of gravity on an object is proportional to its mass - that's based on observations and tests, etc etc etc. Now, if tomorrow someone were to obtain solid evidence that disproves this notion, the scientist would adapt their beliefs - they're not bound to "have faith" in the fact that past experiences and theories are necessarily true. Their belief is based on reason, and when the reasons change, their belief will change.

When people talk about religious "faith", its usually implied that it's at odds with rational thinking. You're never asked to "have faith" in gravity, because it's obviously there. People will usually bring up faith when an "act of God" is of questionable morality, or the stories people tell about God don't make any sense.

[Zipperfish]

I agree-science has a number of beliefs--for instance that the observable universe follows a set of rules With your reference to gravity, I can't "prove" that somehting I am holding will drop to the ground once I let go. I can only say that that is what happenend the last ten million times I've done it.

In principle, once someone demonstrates a thing in science, the entire scintific community should drop their old way of thinking and adopt the new one--quantum physics, for example. In practice, people don't, becasue they're humna. Einstein fought quamtum probablity to his grave.

[CanAm1]

I believe and this clap trap garbage didn't change my mind. NEXT!

[CanAm1]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

I agree-science has a number of beliefs--for instance that the observable universe follows a set of rules With your reference to gravity, I can't "prove" that somehting I am holding will drop to the ground once I let go. I can only say that that is what happenend the last ten million times I've done it.

In principle, once someone demonstrates a thing in science, the entire scintific community should drop their old way of thinking and adopt the new one--quantum physics, for example. In practice, people don't, becasue they're humna. Einstein fought quamtum probablity to his grave.

You and Blue Nose are quite intelligent and I'm not being a smart ass either. I don't always agree with you two but you are great debaters.

[Zipperfish]

CanAm1 CanAm1:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

I agree-science has a number of beliefs--for instance that the observable universe follows a set of rules With your reference to gravity, I can't "prove" that somehting I am holding will drop to the ground once I let go. I can only say that that is what happenend the last ten million times I've done it.

In principle, once someone demonstrates a thing in science, the entire scintific community should drop their old way of thinking and adopt the new one--quantum physics, for example. In practice, people don't, becasue they're humna. Einstein fought quamtum probablity to his grave.

You and Blue Nose are quite intelligent and I'm not being a smart ass either. I don't always agree with you two but you are great debaters.

Cheers, bud!

[dog77_1999]

Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:

dog77_1999 dog77_1999:

There might be a scientific explaination on why the mechanism happens, but ultimatly, why is there a mechanism?

You can ask "why" about a lot of things, but that doesn't mean there's necessarily an answer, nor does it in any way logically follow to label the answer "God". Your "believer" answer, therefore, is in no way rational, anymore than people who believe bad weather is caused by angry Gods are being rational.

This "God of the gaps" argument really has no merit, since you're simply attributing things to God arbitrarily out of ignorance, even if that ignorance extends throughout the entire human population.

God creates the weather and so does the convection heating of water from sunlight and it evaporating into the atmosphere and condensing. They are one in the same. The two are the same.