[BartSimpson]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Christianity isn't a religion of peace?

Nope. It's not.

Jesus in Matthew 10:34 plainly said:

$1:

Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

Jesus was also less than patient with the money changers in the Temple.

While He clearly had problems with unjustified violence He also had no qualms about kicking ass when it was appropriate and He also had no qualms about people defending themselves by force of arms.

Jesus certainly preferred peace but He never told anyone to be a pacifist in His name.

[Zipperfish]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

interesting thing about how Islam made such quick inroads into the western ME. The area was rife with competing heresies between the 4th and 7th century. One new interpretation of Christianity would pop up and make inroads before it was crushed by Byzantine authorities backed by imperial legions...they might be officially christian , but they were still Roman legions with all the compassion that went with them...Anywho, when Islam came about most of the folk who weren't religious fanatics said fuck it...Jesus is still the messiah(in the jewish definition of messiah), there'd be a second coming and day of judgment and a reward for the faithful in this new faith.... and there's only one extra prophet with the sabbath has moved back a couple days. It wasn't that big change in belief systems, as Mosaic law was still the thing and if you accepted it you didn't get taxed as much

That would be the practical way to go.

[Gunnair]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

46% of Americans believe in creationism found in OT.

Tee hee.

[ShepherdsDog]

I don't really agree. The trouble with Christians is that they don't follow the teachings of their founder, and the trouble with Moslems is that they do

[Gunnair]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Christianity isn't a religion of peace?

Nope. It's not.

Jesus in Matthew 10:34 plainly said:

$1:

Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

Jesus was also less than patient with the money changers in the Temple.

While He clearly had problems with unjustified violence He also had no qualms about kicking ass when it was appropriate and He also had no qualms about people defending themselves by force of arms.

Jesus certainly preferred peace but He never told anyone to be a pacifist in His name.

Good thing I don't take your word for much. Otherwise I might believe you when you're ladling out your koolaide.

[Gunnair]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

I don't really agree. The trouble with Christians is that they don't follow the teachings of their founder, and the trouble with Moslems is that they do

There we can agree.

[N_Fiddledog]

Gunnair Gunnair:

I did. Read again.

I beg your pardon. You did. At the bottom of one of your insult laden screeds you said.

$1:

As for the surveys, well, I'm waiting. I'll live with the results.

Very well then. I produce a couple of surveys, and I hear no more about cowardice to address statistical evidence one way or the other of radicalization, right?

You then must address my challenge on whether or not there is a moral equivalency supportable by current occurrences of ideologically pushed radical acts as endorsed in the name of Islam as opposed to those of any other religion. Correct? It's only fair.

Here's a study on the radicalization of American Mosques. I've heard there's 4 of these, but I'll just post the first I found.

$1:

ABSTRACT

random survey of 100 representative mosques in the U.S. was conducted to measure the correlation between Sharia adherence and dogma calling for violence against non-believers. Of the 100 mosques surveyed, 51% had texts on site rated as severely advocating violence; 30% had texts rated as moderately advocating violence; and 19% had no violent texts at all. Mosques that presented as Sharia adherent were more likely to feature violence-positive texts on site than were their non-Sharia-adherent counterparts. In 84.5% of the mosques, the imam recommended studying violence-positive texts. The leadership at Sharia-adherent mosques was more likely to recommend that a worshiper study violence-positive texts than leadership at non-Sharia-adherent mosques. Fifty-eight percent of the mosques invited guest imams known to promote violent jihad. The leadership of mosques that featured violence-positive literature was more likely to invite guest imams who were known to promote violent jihad than was the leadership of mosques that did not feature violence-positive literature on mosque premises.

http://mappingsharia.com/

OK, I know you have some uneducated insults on that one, so let's move on to one you'll like better.

I actually didn't know it existed. I didn't think it could be done. I'm still not sure it was done well, but it's a Pew Research poll done worldwide. I found it by doing something I almost never do. I clicked on a link from Media Matters.

So if it comes from Media Matters you know lefties like this. More precisely they can spin it. Here's a link to an example of that.

http://www.policymic.com/articles/39063 ... ou-believe

But let's look at some examples of stats the left believes shows Muslims are not being radicalized in anyway large enough to suggest we should pay attention to it.

$1:

Eighty-two percent of Afghans believe that religious leaders should have some influence over politics and 99% believe in sharia law, as do 91% of Iraqis and 92% of Palestinians in the Occupied Territories.

Here's an example of Afghan religious justice. I believe this one was for adultery.



How radicalized do you have to be to actually want that? Nobody is going to say that's an isolated example, I hope, because I can choke the server with pics like that of Islamic justice.

Moving on,

$1:

“At least half of Muslims in most countries surveyed say they are concerned about religious extremist groups in their country.”

Half are not, so what does that say?

$1:

"In most countries where the survey asked Muslims about religious extremism, more than 75% say suicide and other violence against civilians is rarely or never justified.”

What is 25% of over a billion anyway, and how many of a population have to be radicalize towards violence before the rest do as their told? How many Nazis did it take to take over Germany?

Anyways that's a taste of Pew Research Poll. Here's the whole thing.

http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFiles/T ... report.pdf

So there it is. Your challenge is addressed. Stop whining. When can I expect you to meet mine, coward?

[Zipperfish]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Agreed with most, however, not with the less violent secular society. Two world wars and several significant European ones suggest otherwise. The west simply found something else to fight about.

Well, the jury is out on that one. Pinker, in The Better Angels of our Nature" makes an exhaustive case that violence, globally, has decreased in botht he short terma dn the long term. However Pinker's book has also been the subject of a lot of criticism.

I had a run at it, but found that it rife with advocacy science and confirmation bias in the early going, so I didn't finish the book.

[Zipperfish]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

I don't really agree. The trouble with Christians is that they don't follow the teachings of their founder, and the trouble with Moslems is that they do

zing!

[BartSimpson]

Gunnair Gunnair:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

46% of Americans believe in creationism found in OT.

Tee hee.

I can probably get 46% of Americans to say that they believe in aliens, too. That doesn't mean we're running a modern, Western nation according to the Old Testament.

Because we are not.

If we were then gay marriage would not be allowed at all. We'd round up the gays and we'd castrate them and let them live as eunuchs or we'd stone them to death outside the city gates.

And, of course, we'd have to have city gates because city gates figure so prominently in so many parts of the Old Testament. But we don't.

The other thing you're missing with your false citations about the Old Testament is that in both the Jewish and Christian traditions most of the Old Testament is not in obeyance because there is not anywhere in the world a properly consecrated Temple.

Absent a consecrated Temple (that must contain the Ark of the Covenant) and an anointed and restored priesthood of Levites there is no one to pass judgment on the tenets of the OT and thus the OT cannot be enforced.

To echo the point made in another topic that was also lost on you, an unenforced law is no law at all.

In this case you cite the various laws of the penteteuch but you fail to cite the enforcement mechanisms that have not existed since the destruction of the Second Temple in 70AD.

[Thanos]

Given the intensity of their unrelenting anger and expressed desire to strip away the secular rights of all others, I'd have no difficulty in agreeing that the contemporary politicized Christian right wing is as motivated by the Old Testament just as much it is by the New.

[BartSimpson]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Good thing I don't take Jesus' word for much.

Because what would Jesus know about Christianity?

[Gunnair]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Gunnair Gunnair:

I did. Read again.

I beg your pardon. You did. At the bottom of one of your insult laden screeds you said.

$1:

As for the surveys, well, I'm waiting. I'll live with the results.

Very well then. I produce a couple of surveys, and I hear no more about cowardice to address statistical evidence one way or the other of radicalization, right?

You then must address my challenge on whether or not there is a moral equivalency supportable by current occurrences of ideologically pushed radical acts as endorsed in the name of Islam as opposed to those of any other religion. Correct? It's only fair.

Here's a study on the radicalization of American Mosques. I've heard there's 4 of these, but I'll just post the first I found.

$1:

ABSTRACT

random survey of 100 representative mosques in the U.S. was conducted to measure the correlation between Sharia adherence and dogma calling for violence against non-believers. Of the 100 mosques surveyed, 51% had texts on site rated as severely advocating violence; 30% had texts rated as moderately advocating violence; and 19% had no violent texts at all. Mosques that presented as Sharia adherent were more likely to feature violence-positive texts on site than were their non-Sharia-adherent counterparts. In 84.5% of the mosques, the imam recommended studying violence-positive texts. The leadership at Sharia-adherent mosques was more likely to recommend that a worshiper study violence-positive texts than leadership at non-Sharia-adherent mosques. Fifty-eight percent of the mosques invited guest imams known to promote violent jihad. The leadership of mosques that featured violence-positive literature was more likely to invite guest imams who were known to promote violent jihad than was the leadership of mosques that did not feature violence-positive literature on mosque premises.

http://mappingsharia.com/

OK, I know you have some uneducated insults on that one, so let's move on to one you'll like better.

I actually didn't know it existed. I didn't think it could be done. I'm still not sure it was done well, but it's a Pew Research poll done worldwide. I found it by doing something I almost never do. I clicked on a link from Media Matters.

So if it comes from Media Matters you know lefties like this. More precisely they can spin it. Here's a link to an example of that.

http://www.policymic.com/articles/39063 ... ou-believe

But let's look at some examples of stats the left believes shows Muslims are not being radicalized in anyway large enough to suggest we should pay attention to it.

$1:

Eighty-two percent of Afghans believe that religious leaders should have some influence over politics and 99% believe in sharia law, as do 91% of Iraqis and 92% of Palestinians in the Occupied Territories.

Here's an example of Afghan religious justice. I believe this one was for adultery.



How radicalized do you have to be to actually want that? Nobody is going to say that's an isolated example, I hope, because I can choke the server with pics like that of Islamic justice.

Moving on,

$1:

“At least half of Muslims in most countries surveyed say they are concerned about religious extremist groups in their country.”

Half are not, so what does that say?

$1:

"In most countries where the survey asked Muslims about religious extremism, more than 75% say suicide and other violence against civilians is rarely or never justified.”

What is 25% of over a billion anyway, and how many of a population have to be radicalize towards violence before the rest do as their told? How many Nazis did it take to take over Germany?

Anyways that's a taste of Pew Research Poll. Here's the whole thing.

http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFiles/T ... report.pdf

So there it is. You challenge is addressed. Stop whining. When can I expect you to meet mine coward?

While I digest this you can reach for that box of Kleenex to dry you eyes. I haven't seen so many tears since Curt'a last meltdown.

[Gunnair]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Good thing I don't take Jesus' word for much.

Because what would Jesus know about Christianity?

Yeah because you have proof Jesus said that.

[Gunnair]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Gunnair Gunnair:

I did. Read again.

I beg your pardon. You did. At the bottom of one of your insult laden screeds you said.

$1:

As for the surveys, well, I'm waiting. I'll live with the results.

By the way, I magnanimously accept your tear stained apology. Now go off and make me a sammich while I read!