[andyt]

If anybody thinks the Liberals and Reformacons aren't doing exactly the same dance, they need their head examined. Or quit drinking the Kool Aid for a bit, at least.

[EyeBrock]

I agree andy. The Tories and Liberals are more alike than different.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Yep, same old idiots peddling the same tired merchandise.

[uwish]

now now Derby, remember we had this conversation in another threat, weren't you giving me a hard to because I responded to a post that was directed to the indented party?

but since you bring it up, your saying it doesn't matter if the leg was important as long as the opposition gets to vote it down?

[DerbyX]

uwish uwish:

now now Derby, remember we had this conversation in another threat, weren't you giving me a hard to because I responded to a post that was directed to the indented party?

but since you bring it up, your saying it doesn't matter if the leg was important as long as the opposition gets to vote it down?

Only when you got mad at me because you thought I was posting to you. I made it clear I didn't think you were but responded on the point any way.

My point is that you cannot call the Liberals for "threatening" an election when its a matter of policy for a non-confidence matter. Harper was not forced to make them non-confidence matters so the threat was one he choose himself.

In addition, its not even a threat from the Liberals since they alone cannot defeat the government. All they can say is they will vote for or against.

Then there is that fact that Harper himself broke his own election law by calling an election. The facts are quite clear. It has not been the Libs threatening an election every six months and any election that happens can only happen if Harper cannot gain the support he needs.

No threats. Just facts.

[hurley_108]

uwish uwish:

and Hurley do you think those bills that were historically not traditional confidence matters were unimportant to Canadians?

Whether they were important or not is immaterial. The fact remains that Harper got Dion right snookered. Eitehr he had to pass Conservative legislation, and make himself look weak, or possibly bring down the government, causing an election few wanted.

That's not a good way to govern, playing fast and loose with centuries old tradition for fleeting partisan advantage.

[uwish]

maybe not Hurley, but lets be honest, do you think the Liberals or any other party would have done anything different? not saying it is right..just saying.

[hurley_108]

uwish uwish:

maybe not Hurley, but lets be honest, do you think the Liberals or any other party would have done anything different? not saying it is right..just saying.

You know, I actually do think that Harper is worse than the norm. And I think that why he can't get support much beyond his base for very long.

Yea, Chretien called a snap election to keep the Alliance in its place, and Martin again with the Conservatives. But then, here's the thing, they left the Alliaance / Conservatives alone. They didn't launch a series of blistering attack ads after the election of the new leaders, slamming them down before they could get started. That's all been on Harper's watch.

Martin didn't prorogue parliament in '05 when the writing was on the wall. That's Harper's move too.

And spare me this "but it's a minority government" wailing. If Harper would respect the fact that there are rules and traditions bigger than he is, he might show that bit of class that he's sorely lacking, and that might sway a few swing votes his way. As it is, he keeps winning minorities, but nothing more, and he's dragging the whole house through the mud to eke out his small claims.

[EyeBrock]

Who was it on the forum who said being a partisan in politics is like being a sports fan for a particular team?

You scream when the other team commits a foul but say it's all part of the game if your team commit the same foul or another foul.

I think it can definitely be applied to supporters of political parties. The Lib guys are just annoyed because they are not in charge any more.

We Tory fan-boys were all annoyed when the Libs were in charge and called 'foul' on everything too. Well some did......

I have always been the ultimate paragon of fair minded political comment. You whiny Libs need to chill.......vote Tory. We do the same shit but have a meaner attitude!

Bollocks to your head Libs'!

[andyt]

uwish uwish:

maybe not Hurley, but lets be honest, do you think the Liberals or any other party would have done anything different? not saying it is right..just saying.

So let me get this straight. When the Reformacons do something tricky, it's OK because the Libs would have done the same. When the Liberals play politics, that's just plain dirty tricks. Have I got it right?

[uwish]

i never said that. In fact, I think I also did mention that it might not be right as well.

[DerbyX]

http://www.decima.com/news/releases/201 ... t-manitoba

$1:

According to Harris/Decima Chairman Allan Gregg “There seems to be little question that the Liberals have improved their electoral fortunes over the summer -- they have closed the gap with the Conservative lead to 3 points; moved into a virtual tie in Ontario, advanced in Quebec and significantly narrowed the Conservative lead among men. Unfortunately for them, it would appear that virtually none of this improvement is a result of voters forming a positive impression of their leader, Michael Ignatieff. In fact, while Conservative leader Stephen Harper has improved his net favourability rating (i.e. the percent of voters holding a favourable minus unfavourable impressions) slightly -- from -10 to -5 – Mr. Ignatieff still trails him at -25 and has basically not moved since May.



A more in-depth analysis presents even more disturbing news for the Liberal leader and demonstrates that he has been unable to cultivate a loyal constituency among any of the demographic and socio-economic groups we look at. In fact, his net favourable rating is worse than Harper's for every group analyzed, save Quebecers and voters with post graduate degrees and even among these two constituencies he is in negative territory. A narrow majority of Liberal voters do hold a favourable impression of Mr. Ignatieff but once again, compared to the number of Conservatives (88%) who hold a favourable impression of his opponent, it is apparent that Mr. Ignatieff does not have the ability to galvanize the Liberal support base the way Mr. Harper does his."

• Nationally, over the last two weeks, the Conservatives lead by three points. The Conservatives are at 33%, the Liberals 30%, the NDP 16%, the Greens 10% and the BQ 9%.

• In Quebec, the BQ leads, with the Liberals establishing themselves as the 2nd place party. Here, the BQ stands at 37%, followed by the Liberals with 28%, the Conservatives 15%, the Greens 10% and the NDP 9%.

• In Ontario, the race remains neck and neck. Here, the Liberals stand at 36%, the Conservatives 35%, the NDP 18% and the Greens 10%.

• In BC, the Conservatives and NDP are battling for popular support. Here, the Conservatives stand at 32%, followed by the NDP with 30%, the Liberals with 21% and the Greens with 15%.

• The Conservatives continue to dominate on the Prairies.
o In Manitoba and Saskatchewan, the Conservatives are at 44%, followed by the Liberals with 27%, the NDP 21% and the Greens 7%.
o In Alberta, the Conservatives hold 63% support, to 18% for the Liberals, 11% for the Greens and 6% for the NDP.

• The Liberals are now well in front in Atlantic Canada. Here, they stand at 45%, to 28% for the Conservatives, 18% for the NDP and 9% for the Greens.


• Leadership tracking also reveals that Canadians continue to view Mr. Ignatieff and Mr. Harper’s leadership unfavourably.
o Mr. Harper is seen in a favourable light by 44%, and unfavourably by 49%.
o Mr. Ignatieff is seen favourably by just 29% and unfavourably by 54%.
o Mr. Layton is seen favourably by 51%, and unfavourably by 37%.
o Ms. May is seen favourably by 30%, and unfavourably by 33%.
o M. Duceppe remains very popular in Quebec, with 61% viewing him favourably, and 29% unfavourably.

[DerbyX]

$1:

A few days ago, the media reported on a new Harris-Decima poll that showed a small gap between the Liberals and the Conservatives. Harris-Decima posted the details of that poll on their website yesterday, and it tells a story of Liberal gain.Compared to Harris-Decima's last poll taken at the end of July and in early August, the Conservatives have dropped one point, standing at 33%. The Liberals have gained two points, and have reached the 30% mark.

The New Democrats are up one to 16% while the Greens are down two to 10% and the Bloc Québécois is stable at 9%.

Though we're talking incremental gain at the national level, this is good news for the Liberals. It wouldn't seem right for them to lead a government, even a coalition, with less than 30% support.

In Ontario, the Liberals are up two to 36% while the Conservatives are unchanged at 35%. The NDP is up two to 18%.

The Bloc has dropped two points in Quebec and is now at 37%. This is a bit of a trend we've seen lately, with the Bloc moving away from the 40%+ they were enjoying throughout the summer. The Liberals are up three to 28% (very good for them) and the Conservatives are up one to 15% (not good). The NDP is down three to 9%, which is a bit of a problem.

The Conservatives have dropped five points in British Columbia and hold a narrow lead with 32%. The NDP is up 10 points and is at 30%, while the Liberals are down one to 21%. The Greens are down five to 15%.

The Liberals are riding high in Atlantic Canada with 45%, up seven. The Conservatives followed with 28%, down six.

The Conservatives lead in Alberta with 63%, followed by the Liberals at 18% (up five).

And in the Prairies, the Conservatives have dropped five points but still lead with 44%. The Liberals are at 27% and the NDP is at 21%, up seven.

The Conservatives would win 63 seats in the West and North, 43 in Ontario, six in Atlantic Canada, and five in Quebec for a total of 117. That would be their worst result since 2004.

The Liberals would win 48 seats in Ontario, 24 in Atlantic Canada, 19 in Quebec, and 16 in the West and North for a total of 107.

The Bloc would win 51 seats in Quebec.

The NDP would win 16 seats in the West, 15 in Ontario, and two in Atlantic Canada for a total of 33.

It would be difficult for the Conservatives to govern with only 117 seats and 33% of the vote. If the Liberals and NDP could come to an agreement, arguably a coalition of 140 seats and 46% of the vote, with one of the parties making huge gains, would have more legitimacy. If the Liberals and NDP were unable to come to an agreement, it is hard to imagine Stephen Harper remaining as Prime Minister for very long. We'd likely see the Opposition defeat the Conservatives and the Liberals installed in a minority government, as they are more likely to find support for their legislation than the Conservatives.

It will be interesting to see how things develop between now and the resumption of Parliament. The Liberals are getting good coverage lately, and Michael Ignatieff finally seems to "get" being a political leader. Good news is few and far between for the Tories and the NDP is going to take a beating with this long gun registry issue. I would not be surprised to see the NDP drop a tick or two to the Liberals. But, then again, I would not be surprised to see the Liberals drop back to 27% or so, which seems to be what always happens.

Steady improvement by Iggy and the Liberals.

[2Cdo]

DerbyX DerbyX:

$1:

A few days ago, the media reported on a new Harris-Decima poll that showed a small gap between the Liberals and the Conservatives. Harris-Decima posted the details of that poll on their website yesterday, and it tells a story of Liberal gain.Compared to Harris-Decima's last poll taken at the end of July and in early August, the Conservatives have dropped one point, standing at 33%. The Liberals have gained two points, and have reached the 30% mark.

The New Democrats are up one to 16% while the Greens are down two to 10% and the Bloc Québécois is stable at 9%.

Though we're talking incremental gain at the national level, this is good news for the Liberals. It wouldn't seem right for them to lead a government, even a coalition, with less than 30% support.

In Ontario, the Liberals are up two to 36% while the Conservatives are unchanged at 35%. The NDP is up two to 18%.

The Bloc has dropped two points in Quebec and is now at 37%. This is a bit of a trend we've seen lately, with the Bloc moving away from the 40%+ they were enjoying throughout the summer. The Liberals are up three to 28% (very good for them) and the Conservatives are up one to 15% (not good). The NDP is down three to 9%, which is a bit of a problem.

The Conservatives have dropped five points in British Columbia and hold a narrow lead with 32%. The NDP is up 10 points and is at 30%, while the Liberals are down one to 21%. The Greens are down five to 15%.

The Liberals are riding high in Atlantic Canada with 45%, up seven. The Conservatives followed with 28%, down six.

The Conservatives lead in Alberta with 63%, followed by the Liberals at 18% (up five).

And in the Prairies, the Conservatives have dropped five points but still lead with 44%. The Liberals are at 27% and the NDP is at 21%, up seven.

The Conservatives would win 63 seats in the West and North, 43 in Ontario, six in Atlantic Canada, and five in Quebec for a total of 117. That would be their worst result since 2004.

The Liberals would win 48 seats in Ontario, 24 in Atlantic Canada, 19 in Quebec, and 16 in the West and North for a total of 107.

The Bloc would win 51 seats in Quebec.

The NDP would win 16 seats in the West, 15 in Ontario, and two in Atlantic Canada for a total of 33.

It would be difficult for the Conservatives to govern with only 117 seats and 33% of the vote. If the Liberals and NDP could come to an agreement, arguably a coalition of 140 seats and 46% of the vote, with one of the parties making huge gains, would have more legitimacy. If the Liberals and NDP were unable to come to an agreement, it is hard to imagine Stephen Harper remaining as Prime Minister for very long. We'd likely see the Opposition defeat the Conservatives and the Liberals installed in a minority government, as they are more likely to find support for their legislation than the Conservatives.

It will be interesting to see how things develop between now and the resumption of Parliament. The Liberals are getting good coverage lately, and Michael Ignatieff finally seems to "get" being a political leader. Good news is few and far between for the Tories and the NDP is going to take a beating with this long gun registry issue. I would not be surprised to see the NDP drop a tick or two to the Liberals. But, then again, I would not be surprised to see the Liberals drop back to 27% or so, which seems to be what always happens.

Steady improvement by Iggy and the Liberals.

Just wait til Iggy opens his mouth again and watch the "support" head south. The Libs are not going to ever win with Iggy as leader, and to think I and other Conservative supporters were worried about him when he first decided to grace Canada with his presence after a 30 year absence.

[EyeBrock]

I agree 2Cdo. I thought it was the beginning of a brave new world when he took over but he's turned out to be a right plonker.

When he is dumped, Bob Rae will take over and he has no chance in Ontario still.

A few more years in the political wilderness is in the Liberals future.