[PublicAnimalNo9]

Mustang1 Mustang1:

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

Ok we have a pretty good idea why the Leafs have had a such a long hard road and have had some extremely sucky years. This year, they may be losing but one thing I've noticed is, unlike previous years, when they get behind they are NOT giving up.
Many of their loses have been simply because they were out-goaltended, which isn't too hard with Toskala between the pipes.
How can they improve the team? It's easy, the press needs to back the fuck off a bit, and from what I've seen, some of the press have very little hockey/business knowledge. Let the players get used to each other ie: positional awareness, where their teammates are and like to be on the ice.
This may be the Leaf's worst start in their history but I have seen one thing that's been suspiciously absent from the team for years, heart and spirit. Sure, they've had SOME players on their team with these attributes at times, but it's been far too long since the entire team had some. This is a squad that realizes hockey games consist of THREE periods, not just two.

This rebuild is going to take awhile, and despite the losses, I'm not going to get disheartened. At least they are only losing by a goal most of their games and not getting blown cuz they have floaters on the ice. Even on that last road trip they were on, they only managed to win one game but came away with 5 points on that road trip.
The only way I can think of to improve the team is keep Toskala out of the damn net!!

I agree. The Defense was beefed up in the offseason. Drafting (which, i think can be overrated) became a priority. Goal-tending was addressed (the Monster signing was a real coup). And Burke is adept at exploiting other avenues of player acquisition, such as the NCAA. Give them time...see if Burke can't continue to move overpriced, long term deals (like Blake) and play the free-agent market well.

Oh...and Toskala needs to be played if only to showcase him for a future trade. His states are horrible, but he is a NHL goalie and maybe, just maybe, some desperate team with goal-tending woes might overpay for him at the trade deadline. But to do that, he's got to look better and he needs some ice time for that (and the Monster can't be expected to Kiprusoff the season)

You have a point about Toskala, although I'd send him back down to the minors where NHL scouts for teams desperate for a goalie can watch him, and keep The Monster and McDonald as the 1-2 netminders. Just spitballin' here though, don't know how practicable that would be for real.

[Mustang1]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

You have a point about Toskala, although I'd send him back down to the minors where NHL scouts for teams desperate for a goalie can watch him, and keep The Monster and McDonald as the 1-2 netminders. Just spitballin' here though, don't know how practicable that would be for real.

Personally, i think he's better than McDonald, but the minors won't showcase him as NHL caliber (I know, if he was a superstar, then trade bait is moot). He's got to be sold to other suitors, and to do that, which, i agree is scary, you've got to throw him out on the ice in the NHL, not AHL. Let's hope the Monster keeps developing and the Toskala issue is a minor problem.

[BeaverFever]

Mustang1 Mustang1:

Ewww...someone's getting upset. Want a tissue, princess? Unlike you, i don't run to a magazine article to make my points - bring the author, we'll talk to him, but you're nothing more than a parrot.

Your biggest fault is that this a discussion that is clearly beyond your meager hockey tether. You've been called out by numerous people on this thread and like the intellectual chicken you are, you dodged their salient questions. I've asked you repeatedly what Burke should have done differently and you waffle, shuffle and dodge, but you still can't answer because you don't know.

Here's a collection of questions/challenges that you've run from:

"They don't need to read books...they needed to hire experienced hockey men like Brian Burke and Nonis. How is that detrimental to the team?"

"Again, what specifically makes you think managment doesn't take notice?"

"what should Burke have done differently or what should he do?"

"You show me where the OTP specifically has torpedoed hockey decisions (and this, of course flies in the face of their bottom line as PLAYOFFS MAKE MORE MONEY!)"

"You demonstrate where exactly the hockey team has to compete with the Raptors or TFC for money at the expense of its operations."

"Oh...and while you're fumbling around with that, maybe you could explain how this was an issue prior to MLSE's takeover in 2003. This means you explain why Stavro wasn't interested in building a winner."

"How is Burke handcuffed by MLSE?"

All asked or challenged and all dodged by you. Piss off.


What have i brought to the debate? Corrections to your litany of errors, misteps and misinterpretations. I'm not about to get into anything beyond that with you because you've demonstrated that you don't know anything. What would we debate? What you don't get? Pearls before swine.

Go back to Wii 2009, the sports fans are talking here.

Touchy??? your the queen of turning every debate into a personal flame war, dont start throwing stones there, prima donnna.

Im not dodging your questions, what Im saying is their not relevant to the big picture.

This is about systems, environments and organizations, not about a sports team, this guy or that guy. Thats what Im trying to tell you, your questions about Burke and Nonnis are trivial and irrelevant to the big picture. Ive books full of case stud after case styudy that talks about this exact same thing. Case A may be about the NY police department, case B about an Olypic sports team, case C about a charity. Theyre all in the same book because theyre all about organizational performance, which is the subject Im trying to illustrate here. Im sorry if youre not clever enough to understand that, I dont know how I can make this clearer.

THIS IS ABOUT ORGANIZATIONAL PERFORMANCE AND ORGANIZATIONAL CHANGE. It is not really about hockey. We could be talking about the NYPD or the Canadian March of Dimes, Bell Telephone or Microsoft, the fact this particular case is a hockey team is irrelevant. All are organziations whose performance can be studied and analyzed in similar manner and you dont have to be an expert in law enforcenment, computures, charities or telecom to do that; organizational performance is its own field of study: Why do organizations perform and why do they fail and why do they continue to do so? How exactly (ie what happens) do they reverse their fortunes? What are the motivators for change? What are the disincentives to change?

I would never presume to step in and say why the Leafs one this game or lost that game, who they should put on the power play or in goal because I dont care about that. Im looking at the big picuture of an organization that has so far Consistently FAILED to live up to the expecations one would have of a team that wealthy and storied.

Your pointless questions about Burke (a relatively recent development over the 42 year timeline) make no difference to an organizational analysis that is looking at a long-term trend. New characters have come and gone, but the ouput was little changed because the SYSTEM was producing the results, not the INPUTS to that system.

And its not just ONE magazine article that has the opinion I shared, there are plenty of books on the subject and news articles that make the exact same point.

Truth be told I dont even care about hockey all that much, but the study of the Leafs as an organization (not as a sports team) is interesting and much has been written about it. So Ill leave to your little sports chat, sorry for trying to broaden your horizons, I didnt realize they were quite so narrow.

Sorry if its all over your head. I know some people have trouble grasping absract ideas and dont like to deal with anything you cant draw on paper and count on their fingers, I cant dumb it down for you any more and you clearly lack intellectual curiousity on the subject so lets just let it go.

You know, its really annoying to have to come on here and get insulted by some little shit over something so meaningless to this world as fucking sports.There was no need to you to turn this into something hostile, what the fuck is your problem, anyway? Maybe if you didnt act like such a prick whenever someone had a different opinion, you wouldnt constantly find yourself in flame wars in every thread you post in. Then again, maybe thats all you look for when you come on here; an outlet for agression youre too afraid to take out in the real world. You should grow up a little, Im assuming youre still a young guy hopefully its not a trait youll take with you out into the real world, it might cause you problems.

I'm pissing off now.

[Mustang1]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Mustang1 Mustang1:

Ewww...someone's getting upset. Want a tissue, princess? Unlike you, i don't run to a magazine article to make my points - bring the author, we'll talk to him, but you're nothing more than a parrot.

Your biggest fault is that this a discussion that is clearly beyond your meager hockey tether. You've been called out by numerous people on this thread and like the intellectual chicken you are, you dodged their salient questions. I've asked you repeatedly what Burke should have done differently and you waffle, shuffle and dodge, but you still can't answer because you don't know.

Here's a collection of questions/challenges that you've run from:

"They don't need to read books...they needed to hire experienced hockey men like Brian Burke and Nonis. How is that detrimental to the team?"

"Again, what specifically makes you think managment doesn't take notice?"

"what should Burke have done differently or what should he do?"

"You show me where the OTP specifically has torpedoed hockey decisions (and this, of course flies in the face of their bottom line as PLAYOFFS MAKE MORE MONEY!)"

"You demonstrate where exactly the hockey team has to compete with the Raptors or TFC for money at the expense of its operations."

"Oh...and while you're fumbling around with that, maybe you could explain how this was an issue prior to MLSE's takeover in 2003. This means you explain why Stavro wasn't interested in building a winner."

"How is Burke handcuffed by MLSE?"

All asked or challenged and all dodged by you. Piss off.


What have i brought to the debate? Corrections to your litany of errors, misteps and misinterpretations. I'm not about to get into anything beyond that with you because you've demonstrated that you don't know anything. What would we debate? What you don't get? Pearls before swine.

Go back to Wii 2009, the sports fans are talking here.

Touchy??? your the queen of turning every debate into a personal flame war, dont start throwing stones there, prima donnna.

Im not dodging your questions, what Im saying is their not relevant to the big picture.

This is about systems, environments and organizations, not about a sports team, this guy or that guy. Thats what Im trying to tell you, your questions about Burke and Nonnis are trivial and irrelevant to the big picture. Ive books full of case stud after case styudy that talks about this exact same thing. Case A may be about the NY police department, case B about an Olypic sports team, case C about a charity. Theyre all in the same book because theyre all about organizational performance, which is the subject Im trying to illustrate here. Im sorry if youre not clever enough to understand that, I dont know how I can make this clearer.

THIS IS ABOUT ORGANIZATIONAL PERFORMANCE AND ORGANIZATIONAL CHANGE. It is not really about hockey. We could be talking about the NYPD or the Canadian March of Dimes, Bell Telephone or Microsoft, the fact this particular case is a hockey team is irrelevant. All are organziations whose performance can be studied and analyzed in similar manner and you dont have to be an expert in law enforcenment, computures, charities or telecom to do that; organizational performance is its own field of study: Why do organizations perform and why do they fail and why do they continue to do so? How exactly (ie what happens) do they reverse their fortunes? What are the motivators for change? What are the disincentives to change?

I would never presume to step in and say why the Leafs one this game or lost that game, who they should put on the power play or in goal because I dont care about that. Im looking at the big picuture of an organization that has so far Consistently FAILED to live up to the expecations one would have of a team that wealthy and storied.

Your pointless questions about Burke (a relatively recent development over the 42 year timeline) make no difference to an organizational analysis that is looking at a long-term trend. New characters have come and gone, but the ouput was little changed because the SYSTEM was producing the results, not the INPUTS to that system.

And its not just ONE magazine article that has the opinion I shared, there are plenty of books on the subject and news articles that make the exact same point.

Truth be told I dont even care about hockey all that much, but the study of the Leafs as an organization (not as a sports team) is interesting and much has been written about it. So Ill leave to your little sports chat, sorry for trying to broaden your horizons, I didnt realize they were quite so narrow.

Sorry if its all over your head. I know some people have trouble grasping absract ideas and dont like to deal with anything you cant draw on paper and count on their fingers, I cant dumb it down for you any more and you clearly lack intellectual curiousity on the subject so lets just let it go.

You know, its really annoying to have to come on here and get insulted by some little shit over something so meaningless to this world as fucking sports.There was no need to you to turn this into something hostile, what the fuck is your problem, anyway? Maybe if you didnt act like such a prick whenever someone had a different opinion, you wouldnt constantly find yourself in flame wars in every thread you post in. Then again, maybe thats all you look for when you come on here; an outlet for agression youre too afraid to take out in the real world. You should grow up a little, Im assuming youre still a young guy hopefully its not a trait youll take with you out into the real world, it might cause you problems.

I'm pissing off now.

MELTDOWN! MELTDOWN! We've got a MELTDOWN in aisle 7!!! Piss off suck. You got called out and now your pissing and moaning because you're a first douche. Your problem, not mine.

Take your little dimestore psychology and stuff it, Dr Phil, as your assessment is likely on par with you hockey knowledge. And we all know that = F*ck All!

You were asked a series of questions that you couldn't answer and that illustrated well that you're a first rate ignoramuses, a chickensh*t and a little crybaby suck. Don't like it? I don't care - hit the ignore button. But i'll question whatever i want here and i don't answer to little pissant nothings like you.

Oh...and look up the word "hypocrite" as i'm not being lectured about flaming posts from you when you flame away in your self-righteous suicide post.

Next time, fess up early, but don't expect me to grow up, until you smarten up.

Any questions? Good. Back to Wii 2009, your 89' Hyundai, lonely nights and your dipwad existence.

Mustang out!

[BeaverFever]

Dude, you got real attitude problems. This coversation is over, you are now officially on ignore. I know you want to get the last word in and let off a parting insult so you can look like you "won" but Im denying you the satisfaction you so desperately crave.

PS I dont play video games or live vicariously through sports teams, for that matter.

Respond if you want, I wont see it.

[Mustang1]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Dude, you got real attitude problems. This coversation is over, you are now officially on ignore. I know you want to get the last word in and let off a parting insult so you can look like you "won" but Im denying you the satisfaction you so desperately crave.

PS I dont play video games or live vicariously through sports teams, for that matter.

Respond if you want, I wont see it.

Are you still here, hypocrite? I guess so, but like the norm, all you've done is crap the forum with a sh#tty post.

Oh...and stating that I want the last word is tantamount to saying, please don't beat my post like a rented mule again. It smacks of projection, and you reek of it.

And thank you, i will respond and you're welcome. You've been taught a very valuable lesson about getting some thicker skin and not emotionally investing in an Internet forum. Sometimes people like you merely exist as a learning tool for others.

Ignore away!

[Zipperfish]

You'd think that sooner or later I'd get sick of watching the Loafers lose, but it just never seems to happen.