[Tricks]

lily lily:

Since when is it unreasonable to expect your kids to obey the law?

Spitting in public is against the law in Toronto. Would you sell your kid's car if he did it? She is being unreasonable because she refused to hear what he had to say, which is exactly what I said parents do.

$1:

My kids have always known that they can discuss any rule they think is unfair, and exceptions are always possible.

Congratulations. Too bad on one hand you say he should discuss it, then on the other hand you say he should move out. So which is it?

$1:

Of course, some kids find it easier to just break the rules rather than discuss them in a mature manner.

Breaking rules is the best form of protest. I know from experience.

[Tricks]

lily lily:

Tricks Tricks:

The guy has probably been drinking for the past 4 years anyways. Parents were just too retarded to figure it out.

So?

Next time you get a speeding ticket, are you going to say you shouldn't have to face the consequences because you've been speeding since you first sat down behind the wheel and the cops were too stupid to catch you?

Come on, Tricks, you can do better than this.

I won't get a speeding ticket, I'm smarter then that.

And you missed the point. The parents should expect him to drink, considering 95% of people his age do. Instead of forbidding it, how about they give him a place to do it safely, under supervision?

[DerbyX]

lily lily:

DerbyX DerbyX:

lily lily:

If he's still living at home, he has to abide by house rules.

Many a child has left home for good under such quotations and of course there is the matter of a lifetime of relationships to be considered.

"do this or else" is likely not new to the 18 year old and if its still be used then that is what she will have taught him.

Ultimatums.

Not a good llesson to pass on.

Continuing my last point, why shouldn't he return that sentiment in later years.

"I'm not coming home for the holidays because I won't stay under a roof that dictates to me".

"No, mom, you can't come up to see the kids because I'm to busy and don't need a lecture on how to raise them properly".

"No, mom. You will not buy my kids toys I told you not to because I said so. If you can't abide by my rules then you won't see them".

Inflexibility and rigidness is quite possibly the very lesson she will pass on.

You get all that from "no booze in the car"?

I would agree completely if it were here, where the drinking age is 18 or 19... but he's still 2 years away from being able to legally buy or drink alcohol.

If he doesn't like it, he can always move out.... but then, he'd have to take even more responsibility for his life.

Now look at this if it were your own son.

He may indeed decide to leave out of spite.

Does a mother really want her son leaving out of spite harbouring alot of ill will and alot of anger.

Is that her goal? Her actions seem to say "Yes".

The drinking age is just BS. The issue is the nature of the punishment.

Would you ground your child every day until he moved out for even a serious infraction such as coming home drunk?

[ShepherdsDog]

Tricks Tricks:

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

Even if the booze wasn't his, and it was a passanger's, the driver is still responsible for the content of the vehicle.

So if I go pick up someone when I'm 18 and they are 19, I can be charged for having unopened alcohol in the car?

The jist is that he was told that there was to be no booze in the car. That was one of the conditions his mother stipulated for letting him use the vehicle. It's up to him to monitor his passengers and be responsible for what is brought into the vehicle.

[Tricks]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

Tricks Tricks:

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

Even if the booze wasn't his, and it was a passanger's, the driver is still responsible for the content of the vehicle.

So if I go pick up someone when I'm 18 and they are 19, I can be charged for having unopened alcohol in the car?

The jist is that he was told that there was to be no booze in the car. That was one of the conditions his mother stipulated for letting him use the vehicle. It's up to him to monitor his passengers and be responsible for what is brought into the vehicle.

He never should have agreed to it. Gah the youth of today are so spineless.

[DerbyX]

lily lily:

DerbyX DerbyX:

lily lily:

$1:

Is the mother prepared for the fallout? How about years later if he says "One slip up and you never see your grandkids again?"

Extreme, I know, but if the mother is given to extreme reactions then she should be prepared for some in return.

I see your point, but I think "no booze in the car" for an underage driver is a fair rule, and not extreme at all.

The rule? No. The punishment, yes.

Thats the hallmark of inflexibility. Everybody has rules and punishments but when the punishment is an extreme one for something that is quite frankly to be expected let alone explainable then it isn't fair.

Regardless, she is simply teaching her son a lesson and that lesson may very well come back to haunt her.

Will she consider it a harsh punishment if he decides that the punishment for her disobeying his "rule" about not spoiling the kids is cesation of visits.

That will be perfectly within his right. She will have violated his "rule" and she will then face whatever punishment he decides.

What lesson does she really want to pass on?

That is what she should be thinking about and quite frankly I think its the wrong lesson.

Maybe this wasn't the first time the kid had done it.

Maybe he knew this would happen if he broke the rule.


I think you're being rather extreme with the grandparent analogy. Sure, it's a possibility, but if that happens, it won't have stemmed fron this single incident.

Maybe she's a bad parent.... maybe he's a bad kid.

First time? I don't think so because it would have been in the news also. This was a first time offence.

I feel you are not looking at it from a "son" perspective and probably for the same reason I'm not looking at it from a "mom" perspective.

We can't answer all the questions. We can't answer if he is bitter and will hold it against her.

We can't answer if he will chalk it up to learning and the relationship will be unchanged.

To me, thought, the questions are "What lesson is she passing on"? Remember that the lesson will only be what he feels it is.

In addition, "tough love" may work but its also as likely to make things worse.

Is the infraction worth the punishment and the subsequent fallout?

Neither of us can truly answer that but we can both decide for ourselves the age old axiom of 'Risk Vs Reward".

Is the risk of backlash to her punishment worth the reward of the lesson she is trying to teach?

[ShepherdsDog]

$1:

I believe that's illegal.

what part? Supervised minor consumption isn't illegal, minor purchase and unsupervised consumption is. I know liquor laws vary from province to province, but in many licensed restaurants parents can purchase alcoholic beverages for their minor(within reason) children to consume with their meal.

$1:

Not all who wander are lost

I thought it was wonder, not wander, or is that an intentional pun.

[DerbyX]

lily lily:

DerbyX DerbyX:

lily lily:

DerbyX DerbyX:

lily lily:

If he's still living at home, he has to abide by house rules.

Many a child has left home for good under such quotations and of course there is the matter of a lifetime of relationships to be considered.

"do this or else" is likely not new to the 18 year old and if its still be used then that is what she will have taught him.

Ultimatums.

Not a good llesson to pass on.

Continuing my last point, why shouldn't he return that sentiment in later years.

"I'm not coming home for the holidays because I won't stay under a roof that dictates to me".

"No, mom, you can't come up to see the kids because I'm to busy and don't need a lecture on how to raise them properly".

"No, mom. You will not buy my kids toys I told you not to because I said so. If you can't abide by my rules then you won't see them".

Inflexibility and rigidness is quite possibly the very lesson she will pass on.

You get all that from "no booze in the car"?

I would agree completely if it were here, where the drinking age is 18 or 19... but he's still 2 years away from being able to legally buy or drink alcohol.

If he doesn't like it, he can always move out.... but then, he'd have to take even more responsibility for his life.

Now look at this if it were your own son.

He may indeed decide to leave out of spite.

Does a mother really want her son leaving out of spite harbouring alot of ill will and alot of anger.

Is that her goal? Her actions seem to say "Yes".

The drinking age is just BS. The issue is the nature of the punishment.

Would you ground your child every day until he moved out for even a serious infraction such as coming home drunk?

If I'm an overbearing controlling parent, that's exactly what I'd do. Good thing for my kids I'm not.

We really don't know the background of this story - all we're doing is speculating based on limited info.

Thats what we are discussing of course. Overbearing and controlling parents (Carries mother eh!) often reap the rewards of their childrearing in later years.

[Tricks]

lily lily:

If you're seriously going to equate spitting with underage drinking/driving, you're done here.

Underage drinking, yeah. Because everyone does it, and it doesn't come with much of a penalty if any.

$1:

Where did I say he should move out?

$1:

If he doesn't like it, he can always move out....

$1:

He's a big boy, Tricks. If he doesn't want to abide by the house rules, then yes, it's time to move out. Let him buy his own car, rent his own place, make his own rules.

Great idea, lets be an unreasonable bitch (the mother not you) and have our kid move out and end up homeless. Great idea.

$1:

Or... he can be an adult, pay rent, and negotiate special circumstances.

Or the mother can not be such a bitch.

$1:

Sometimes, perhaps.
Not always.

9 times out of 10.

[Tricks]

lily lily:

Tricks Tricks:

lily lily:

Tricks Tricks:

The guy has probably been drinking for the past 4 years anyways. Parents were just too retarded to figure it out.

So?

Next time you get a speeding ticket, are you going to say you shouldn't have to face the consequences because you've been speeding since you first sat down behind the wheel and the cops were too stupid to catch you?

Come on, Tricks, you can do better than this.

I won't get a speeding ticket, I'm smarter then that.

And you missed the point. The parents should expect him to drink, considering 95% of people his age do. Instead of forbidding it, how about they give him a place to do it safely, under supervision?

I believe that's illegal.

So? He's going to do it anyway, why not give him a better environment to do it.

[Tricks]

lily lily:

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

$1:

I believe that's illegal.

what part? Supervised minor consumption isn't illegal, minor purchase and unsupervised consumption is. I know liquor laws vary from province to province, but in many licensed restaurants parents can purchase alcoholic beverages for their minor(within reason) children to consume with their meal.

Are you sure? I've never heard of that... but I've heard of a woman being charged for supplying booze for her son's party.

What Shep said is the case here. Lots of parents do that.

[WBenson]

lily lily:

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

$1:

I believe that's illegal.

what part? Supervised minor consumption isn't illegal, minor purchase and unsupervised consumption is. I know liquor laws vary from province to province, but in many licensed restaurants parents can purchase alcoholic beverages for their minor(within reason) children to consume with their meal.

Are you sure? I've never heard of that... but I've heard of a woman being charged for supplying booze for her son's party.

A party usually means that they are supplying it to people that aren't their own children. They still can't serve it to the children of others.

[Brenda]

Tricks Tricks:

lily lily:

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

$1:

I believe that's illegal.

what part? Supervised minor consumption isn't illegal, minor purchase and unsupervised consumption is. I know liquor laws vary from province to province, but in many licensed restaurants parents can purchase alcoholic beverages for their minor(within reason) children to consume with their meal.

Are you sure? I've never heard of that... but I've heard of a woman being charged for supplying booze for her son's party.

What Shep said is the case here. Lots of parents do that.

If it wasn't, Mr. C's mom would be in jail, wouldn't she?

[Alta_redneck]

Brenda Brenda:

Tricks Tricks:

lily lily:

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

$1:

I believe that's illegal.

what part? Supervised minor consumption isn't illegal, minor purchase and unsupervised consumption is. I know liquor laws vary from province to province, but in many licensed restaurants parents can purchase alcoholic beverages for their minor(within reason) children to consume with their meal.

Are you sure? I've never heard of that... but I've heard of a woman being charged for supplying booze for her son's party.

What Shep said is the case here. Lots of parents do that.

If it wasn't, Mr. C's mom would be in jail, wouldn't she?

Nope she would have been fined and Mr. C would be stealing booze from his new foster parents like he did with his mom, or his step dad or even his grandma, who else was in that house.

You didn't believe that crap did you Brenda?

[ShepherdsDog]

Mr. C

C=contrived