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Posts: 53481
Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 6:10 am
PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9: Get rid of the fast food dumps and other chain restaurants and beef would be more sustainable. Fast food isn't the culprit in meat sustainability. The fast food culture is actually worse for farming of plants than anything else. French Fries, for example, require a monoculture of potatoes, harsh chemicals for fertilization and pest control, and wastes huge amounts of that crop that end up being the wrong size for the processing machines. French Fry producers require the potato be a specific dimension, with a specific water content, and a specific variety . . . something nature does not like to produce. Meat has become unsustainable when vast swaths of forest are cut down to plant crops that are then fed to the beef to fatten them up. Animals that are evolved to eat grasses. People like me saw this happening, and eat the crops instead of feeding them to the animals, thus skipping a step in the production.  Meat substitutes like these burgers are just the way to get people eating the crops instead of the animals. PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9: I find it odd with all the wailing and gnashing of teeth over oil (and coal) that it seems many people do not understand that the agriculture-franchise restaurant industrial chain is arguably as destructive as the oil industry and unquestionably the most wasteful.
Preaching to the choir here Animal. Ever research what it takes to produce something as innocuous as a fast food milkshake?  fifeboy fifeboy: I've nothing against a vegetarian diet and go meatless sometimes, but want my meatless to be just that. If I'm going to eat beans, I'll do so, but if I want meat, I don't want a meat substitute. There are lots of 'burgers' out there that are just good burgers. Many don't have meat in them. I don't think these products are meant as a meat substitute, they are just meant to fill the craving that people have for meat. People who aren't raised eating meat don't have these cravings, and the Western diet is a difficult thing to break because we have these cravings. I don't think there will be a true 'meat substitute' until there is a vegetarian alternative to bacon.  A real alternative, not some tofu and setain approximation.
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Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 8:53 am
Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy: I'm sorry but, I do fully understand what these plant based "products" are and what they do which, besides imitating meat is, to be the first step by modern science and the social engineers to remove meat from our food stream entirely or at the least partially in order "to save the planet". Yes, they are an attempt to shift towards more sustainable production of food. How dare they. $1: So, eat all the imitation meat you want because that's your choice, just don't join the crowd that's pushing this latest abomination and trying to impose their lifestyle choices on the rest of us and we'll get along fine. Where exactly did I say to impose this on others? Please quote me. $1: The logical followup to the meatless meat discussion will likely at some point in the future concern the merits of Soylent Green?  Soylent is already a product that exists. Also, I'm just as on board with lab grown meat if that can be sustainable too.
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Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 8:55 am
PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9: Get rid of the fast food dumps and other chain restaurants and beef would be more sustainable.
I find it odd with all the wailing and gnashing of teeth over oil (and coal) that it seems many people do not understand that the agriculture-franchise restaurant industrial chain is arguably as destructive as the oil industry and unquestionably the most wasteful.
My wife and calculated that you could get around 2500 1/4 lb burgers out of your average steer. There are also over 23,000 locations across NA between just between McDonalds and Burger King. Now, if every one of those locations toss out only ONE 1/4 pounder a day, it also means that all the resources used in raising, transporting and butchering 9 cows also goes in the dumpster with them. That's just one burger per day per location for two chains. We know more than 1 per location gets tossed per day. Then factor in all the other fast food dumps and the number of wasted cows starts getting out of hand.
Food sustainability isn't the problem, it's all the goddam waste. When I was younger I worked at a Swiss Chalet corporate restaurant (not a franchisee) and was disgusted by the amount of chicken that got tossed in the dumpster at the end of the day. Entire chickens would often end up in the dumpster. Which was really stupid because there was a homeless shelter literally 2 minutes down the road. You'll get no argument from me on any of that. I think electrifying and having more sustainable farming practices is paramount going forward. Also less people eating fast food is positive in more ways than just waste. You'd likely have less strain on the healthcare system.
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Posts: 8738
Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 9:02 am
BeaverFever BeaverFever: I bought some from sobeys, pack of 2 costs 7.99 so probably not going to replace my regular frozen 8-pack of PC or.Compliments brand burgers which IIRC are around 10.99. But if I wanna doing something fancier, or had some vegan guests then I definitely would get some more.
Comparing, the nutritional info and nobody will be surprised to learn that the Beyond Meat is significantly healthier right across the board...especially in sodium, which is usually where “processed” foods fail miserably.
As for flavour , I found them to be quite tasty, they are seasoned to have their own unique flavour not simply trying to imitate the taste of a standard burger patty . But it’s not some exotic or weird vegan flavour either I recall it being something like a hint of bbq or southwestern kind of flavour definitely within the range of what someone might otherwise season a beef meatball or ground beef for a specialty dish. Buy a burger press, a kg of lean ground organic beef, chop onions, garlic, any other spice you might want, crack in an egg or two, cup of rolled oats and make patties. Wrap in wax paper and freeze. You get what you want.
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Posts: 23084
Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 9:58 am
stratos stratos: Is an argument between 2 Vegans still called a "beef"? This should be in the Joke thread.
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Posts: 35270
Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 11:01 am
Tricks Tricks: Soylent is already a product that exists.
Also, I'm just as on board with lab grown meat if that can be sustainable too. Can't wait to get replicators. Earl grey... hot.
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Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 1:08 pm
raydan raydan: Tricks Tricks: Soylent is already a product that exists.
Also, I'm just as on board with lab grown meat if that can be sustainable too. Can't wait to get replicators. Earl grey... hot. The best part of the orville for me is the food system in it. If that shit were real, that'd be the greatest invention in man kinds history.
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Posts: 35270
Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 1:13 pm
I wonder if the beef patty and the veggie patty that come out of a replicator would be the same thing. ![huh? [huh]](./images/smilies/icon_scratch.gif)
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Posts: 18770
Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 1:25 pm
bootlegga bootlegga: stratos stratos: Is an argument between 2 Vegans still called a "beef"? This should be in the Joke thread. I know but dang it fit right into the topic so I put it here instead.
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Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 2:21 pm
Tricks Tricks: Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy: I'm sorry but, I do fully understand what these plant based "products" are and what they do which, besides imitating meat is, to be the first step by modern science and the social engineers to remove meat from our food stream entirely or at the least partially in order "to save the planet". Yes, they are an attempt to shift towards more sustainable production of food. How dare they. $1: So, eat all the imitation meat you want because that's your choice, just don't join the crowd that's pushing this latest abomination and trying to impose their lifestyle choices on the rest of us and we'll get along fine. Where exactly did I say to impose this on others? Please quote me. $1: The logical followup to the meatless meat discussion will likely at some point in the future concern the merits of Soylent Green?  Soylent is already a product that exists. Also, I'm just as on board with lab grown meat if that can be sustainable too. Given beef has a grain fed taste or a free range taste and the same with chickens i'm wondering what meat created in a lab tastes like? Never mind, I found out and unless there's a drastic improvement in the process and cost, this animal less meat is gonna end up in the oddities of history bin along with the "artificial blood" that turned into methemoglobin. $1: In 2013, when a burger made from lab-grown meat was presented to journalists, the patty cost more than $300,000 to produce and was overly dry (from too little fat). Expenses have since fallen. Memphis Meats reported this year that a quarter-pound of its ground beef costs about $600. Given this trend, clean meat could become competitive with traditional meat within several years. Careful attention to texture and judicious supplementing with other ingredients could address taste concerns. https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... rown-meat/By supplementing to address the taste concerns I'm assuming they mean plant based products which means there's a very good chance this animal less meat could end up being meatless meat which is where we're at now. 
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Posts: 35270
Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 2:29 pm
$1: Our earliest ancestors ate their food raw — fruit, leaves, maybe some nuts. When they ventured down onto land, they added things like underground tubers, roots and berries.
It wasn't a very high-calorie diet, so to get the energy you needed, you had to eat a lot and have a big gut to digest it all. But having a big gut has its drawbacks.
"You can't have a large brain and big guts at the same time," explains Leslie Aiello, an anthropologist and director of the Wenner-Gren Foundation in New York City, which funds research on evolution. Digestion, she says, was the energy-hog of our primate ancestor's body. The brain was the poor stepsister who got the leftovers.
Until, that is, we discovered meat. Meat makes us smarter. https://www.npr.org/2010/08/02/12884990 ... us-smarter
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Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 3:53 pm
Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy: Tricks Tricks: Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy: I'm sorry but, I do fully understand what these plant based "products" are and what they do which, besides imitating meat is, to be the first step by modern science and the social engineers to remove meat from our food stream entirely or at the least partially in order "to save the planet". Yes, they are an attempt to shift towards more sustainable production of food. How dare they. $1: So, eat all the imitation meat you want because that's your choice, just don't join the crowd that's pushing this latest abomination and trying to impose their lifestyle choices on the rest of us and we'll get along fine. Where exactly did I say to impose this on others? Please quote me. $1: The logical followup to the meatless meat discussion will likely at some point in the future concern the merits of Soylent Green?  Soylent is already a product that exists. Also, I'm just as on board with lab grown meat if that can be sustainable too. Given beef has a grain fed taste or a free range taste and the same with chickens i'm wondering what meat created in a lab tastes like? Never mind, I found out and unless there's a drastic improvement in the process and cost, this animal less meat is gonna end up in the oddities of history bin along with the "artificial blood" that turned into methemoglobin. $1: In 2013, when a burger made from lab-grown meat was presented to journalists, the patty cost more than $300,000 to produce and was overly dry (from too little fat). Expenses have since fallen. Memphis Meats reported this year that a quarter-pound of its ground beef costs about $600. Given this trend, clean meat could become competitive with traditional meat within several years. Careful attention to texture and judicious supplementing with other ingredients could address taste concerns. https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... rown-meat/By supplementing to address the taste concerns I'm assuming they mean plant based products which means there's a very good chance this animal less meat could end up being meatless meat which is where we're at now.  Veggie burgers have tasted like shit for decades and now we're finally getting something that doesn't. And in 6 years the cost of lab grown meat has fallen by 99%. Of course it's not going to happen over night. But it's improving.
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Posts: 8738
Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 5:23 pm
Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy: Given beef has a grain fed taste or a free range taste and the same with chickens i'm wondering what meat created in a lab tastes like?
Right! Cows are supposed to eat grass. One can tell the difference between free range and feedlot by just looking at the meat, and for sure by eating it. Same with chickens. If we raise cattle on range (not prime cropland), let them crap on the range and not be finished with grain, we would have slightly chewier but much better tasting meat. Also better for the planet (not for Tyson foods though.)
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Posts: 35270
Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 5:30 pm
Strange that they put "grain-fed" on the packaging as if it was a good thing. I thought that cows had a lot of digestive problems when they eat too much grain... bloating, twisted stomach (displaced abomasum), acidosis and the like.
It's been a while so I might be getting this wrong.
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Posts: 8738
Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 6:47 pm
raydan raydan: Strange that they put "grain-fed" on the packaging as if it was a good thing. I thought that cows had a lot of digestive problems when they eat too much grain... bloating, twisted stomach (displaced abomasum), acidosis and the like.
It's been a while so I might be getting this wrong. I have heard the same thing. Also that grain fed cattle harbour more of the not good E. Coli
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