[martin14]

Delwin Delwin:

and using passages from the Bible to justify his actions, xxxx in a most vile manner,

Well now, that's the first evidence we've seen the guy was a 'Christian'.

Andy failed because he wasn't able to back up his bullshit, as usual.


He just posted the story and started moaning about Christians, without
being sure the guy was a Christian, and then fell on his face when he got called
out on it.

Just butthurt from being destroyed on so many other topics,

like European healthcare,

Muslim girls being cut outside Africa,

Muslims in general,

and his pet projects that we all need to pay mo' money for in particular.

Plus so much more.

[Delwin]

Ill post this here since you posted just as I was editing:

I am in no way insinuating that Christianity is bad or trying to equate the deeds of one religion or another. It just seems as though people often unjustly defend even the possibility of someone being Christian or Muslim or (insert group or religion here) simply because the deeds are so horrible that they would never want to have someone who had committed them associated with that group. Even when the association is as plain as day.

Needless to say, bad deeds come in all shapes and sizes, there is no group or organization that is immune to bad people, and evil people will often use a facade to hide their true intentions. The actions of individuals are obviously committed independently from the tenants of religious organizations. Bad people will betray trusts in whatever way they can and it shouldn't shine a negative light on the good intentions of the organizations they belong to.

[Thanos]

The best that should be done should be to differentiate the fundamentalists from the mainstream practitioners of the faith. From Westboro Baptist to Lev Tahor to Al Qaeda there is NO good, period, that comes out of religious fundamentalism.

[Delwin]

I would agree with that, although fundamentalism is a somewhat relative term in that, most practioners of a faith believe that their practice is fundamentally sound.

I think the ideology becomes flawed once your practice begins to infringe on the rights of others, whether they are within or outside of the group, not necessarily legal rights.

There is no question that there are groups with ideologies that are simply bad.

[desertdude]

commanderkai commanderkai:

....

Well you sure do whine a lot when its your turn to face the music. The age old advice fits very well here. If you can't take it, don't dish it out.

[andyt]

Delwin Delwin:

I would agree with that, although fundamentalism is a somewhat relative term in that, most practioners of a faith believe that their practice is fundamentally sound.

I think the ideology becomes flawed once your practice begins to infringe on the rights of others, whether they are within or outside of the group, not necessarily legal rights.

There is no question that there are groups with ideologies that are simply bad.

fundamentalism of he Christian variety says the Bible is the literal, inerrant, word of God. All sorts of shit lead from thinking like that, and the practitioners themselves seem to choose which parts of the bible to take literally and which not. Christian fundamentalism is based on Evangelism which holds that only those that are born again will go to heaven, everybody else will burn in hell. With an outlook like that, you're not going to think much of most people, and again would be a basis for not treating them well. But at least these sorts of Christians, for now at least, seem to have reigned in their desire to kill the sinners. But it certainly plays out in the abortion crap that they come up with and the anti-gay stuff.

I know less about Islamic fundamentalism, ie what it's tenets are, but it sure seems to be causing a lot of shit in the world. Certainly non-Muslims and even non-strict Muslims are seen as sinners deserving to be converted or killed. Islam has a real problem here, one that more reasonable Muslims need to do way more to confront, not just try to ignore. But, us alienating those reasonable Muslims with nothing but anti-Muslim rants sure wont' help the situation.

[andyt]

martin14 martin14:

Delwin Delwin:

and using passages from the Bible to justify his actions, xxxx in a most vile manner,

Well now, that's the first evidence we've seen the guy was a 'Christian'.

Andy failed because he wasn't able to back up his bullshit, as usual.


He just posted the story and started moaning about Christians, without
being sure the guy was a Christian, and then fell on his face when he got called
out on it.

Just butthurt from being destroyed on so many other topics,

like European healthcare,

Muslim girls being cut outside Africa,

Muslims in general,

and his pet projects that we all need to pay mo' money for in particular.

Plus so much more.

Here ya go:

[N_Fiddledog]

Well, this one's gone far enough off the rails, what the Hell, let's go the full Mohammed.

I'll tell you guys why you're wrong.

So if I understand the progified, something-like reason correctly this crazy person quoted scriptures to justify his misdeeds somehow during his trial. We don't know how exactly. For all we know he was quoting one of the passages from the bible about redemption.

In any case, so what?

You answer - well this means this situation is an example of the abuses of religious fundamentalism just like all the maniacal evils perpetrated under the authority of Islam are just a few fundamentalists misreading the texts.

The problem with that is it's not true. It's false from varied directions.

First of all with Islam it's not fundamentalism. It's an accurate and even mainstream interpretation of the most accepted texts.

It's not fundamentalism but it is political. That's the best way to view it. Islam is dualistic. There is a spiritual side as taught by the Mohammed of Mecca. That Mohammed had a hundred followers or so and basically that harmless religion just robbed the myths and memes of the other religions of the Levant to keep its followers in line.

There's a second Islam though. We can think of it as political or Islamo-fascist Islam. That's the one that demands it's people believe good is if you belong to Islam, and evil is if you don't. After that anything goes.

Mohammed was kicked out of Mecca. He went to Medina and went to war. He began with theft, murder, deceit and piracy. He promised his new followers the things their baser instincts desired and his flock grew to the point it could go to war. Thus began the spread of Islam through the sword.

During his years in Medina he rewrote his words to justify his dark deeds and they call these perversions of reason "abrogation".

This Mohammed was not Jesus. He was not Buddah. He was nothing like them. Yes, one will find texts in the bible that can be used to justify dark deeds as one can find them in all religious texts. The difference between those and the ones in the religious texts of Islam is mainstream Christians are led away from them. In any case their sparse and sprinkled over long periods of time. Most are from the old testament. With Islam the dark texts are throughout, and abrogated to be accepted above the spiritual texts that came before them in the reality timeline.

Also Mohammed is spoken of as being the most perfect of men, and is to be emulated in all ways. He was a pedophile and a rapist. So see how that could and would be used if this guy from Prince George was standing before a Sharia court?

In fact here's the most striking difference between the judge in Prince George and a judge in a Sharia court. A Sharia judge would neither be shocked or disappointed in the guy's rationale.

Now there are Muslims who concentrate on the spiritual beauty borrowed and infused into the spiritual side of Islam. Presently we're referring to those as Moderates. But there is the political side, and the greater the percentage of believers to non-believers in a general population the greater the control that radical or Islamo-fascist political side - the side that follows the abrogated "way of the sword" - will exert on the larger body. That's just historical, geographical, and easily observable fact.

Comparing religions here to say one phenomena is just like the other is naive to the point of stupidity.

[commanderkai]

desertdude desertdude:

commanderkai commanderkai:

....

Well you sure do whine a lot when its your turn to face the music. The age old advice fits very well here. If you can't take it, don't dish it out.

I was whining? I was addressing whatever attempt of a point you were trying to make over andy's statements. Your response is three sentences and addresses absolutely nothing of what said.

Now, see, I get amused when you try to paint me in some corner, and somehow mark that as a victory point. Except every single time, you fail. If it wasn't so pathetic, I'd find it amusing.

Now, I understand, you're protective over your culture and religion. That's perfectly understandable, and hell, it's normal. I'm a pro-American, ideologically conservative or libertarian, depending on if we're talking about what I believe personally or what I think is most acceptable for Canadian/American society, Canadian. I also know full well that both Canada and the United States, two countries that I believe are the two greatest countries on the planet, have their flaws. I readily admit them, but I disagree with others (say, Zip, or boot) on how best to approach those problems. I might get passionate, but I do my best to keep my responses from being personal (although I am only human).

Same goes with my faith. I'm nominally Roman Catholic. I most likely best fit as a non-denominational Christian, although I fully respect the Roman Catholic Church, and generally align myself with the Church over say, the Anglican or Lutheran, or Baptist or Methodist sects out there. The Catholic Church has its flaws (which I stated) but I also defend it against the whitewashing of history (say, the Inquisition or the Crusades being done just for the evulz). I admit my religion has its flaws and it's problems (although this guy, and this story, is not one of them). Can you?

[andyt]

I would say he scored a direct hit:

desertdude desertdude:

Ironic isn't it that this doesn't seem to click in yours or many other minds here when there is a barrage of almost non stop vitriol from fiddly and his ilk. So I guess its OK to stomps on everyone elses beliefs just as long as they are not yours. Hypocrisy much ?

[herbie]

Let me explain Billy, it's not that your friend Joey isn't a good kid but he's not like us. His family goes to the 11:00 service instead of the 9:00 service. Those people aren't true Christians like the rest of us. They go late because they're lazy, they sleep in on the day of worship - why some of their Mommies and Daddies even sleep in the same bed.
Most of them are notoriously cheap and moneygrubbing, breakfast at Dennys is over when services end, so they don't even go there!
Scripture tells us that we're going to have to rise up one day and render them into little pieces so their heathen blood sweetens the earth to grow true Christians.
So Joey can't come over. Tell him we're busy with family Bible studies.....

[Jabberwalker]

I'll bet that their hymnal has different numbers for the same hymns!


... those heretics ...

[commanderkai]

andyt andyt:

I would say he scored a direct hit:

desertdude desertdude:

Ironic isn't it that this doesn't seem to click in yours or many other minds here when there is a barrage of almost non stop vitriol from fiddly and his ilk. So I guess its OK to stomps on everyone elses beliefs just as long as they are not yours. Hypocrisy much ?

Again, what hypocrisy? How often can I say that I readily admit there are problems with Christianity in the 21st century? Seriously, let me bold that for you, since you can't read, nor comprehend.


Christianity in the 21st century has its share of problems.

However, your attempts to tarnish mainstream Christianity through either the acts of current, extremist Christians, or the acts of Christians that date centuries does not do anything to address current societal issues with Islam today. If you think so, I'll gladly inform you andy that you're wrong, and I will inform you of this until you get it through your thick skull.

[martin14]

commanderkai commanderkai:

Christianity in the 21st century has its share of problems.

Funny how you never see DD type the same thing about Islam.

Its all just sweetness and light and just misunderstood.

[desertdude]

commanderkai commanderkai:

andyt andyt:

I would say he scored a direct hit:

desertdude desertdude:

Ironic isn't it that this doesn't seem to click in yours or many other minds here when there is a barrage of almost non stop vitriol from fiddly and his ilk. So I guess its OK to stomps on everyone elses beliefs just as long as they are not yours. Hypocrisy much ?

Again, what hypocrisy? How often can I say that I readily admit there are problems with Christianity in the 21st century? Seriously, let me bold that for you, since you can't read, nor comprehend.


Christianity in the 21st century has its share of problems.

However, your attempts to tarnish mainstream Christianity through either the acts of current, extremist Christians, or the acts of Christians that date centuries does not do anything to address current societal issues with Islam today. If you think so, I'll gladly inform you andy that you're wrong, and I will inform you of this until you get it through your thick skull.

*sigh more whining

Either you are being intentionally obtuse or just don't get it, in the latter case I suggest you sign up for a few more English comprehension classes while you're still in college and have the chance. Anyways you can keep telling your hypocrite self, what a shining example of unbiased thought you are in your own mind. I'm done here.