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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:07 pm
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
EyeBrock EyeBrock:
Option 3.

Re negotiate those treaties as they pertain to Canadian sovereign territory and enforce it with Coastguard, naval warships, recce aircraft and infantry elements. Ensure that entry to an 'international' passage way that transits Canadian territory has controlled access and is administered and enforced by Canada.


So you need to get 100 some-odd countries to agree to this. Good luck with that.

EyeBrock EyeBrock:
The US would never stand for this 'international' BS if it was their waters. We even have to ensure passenger manifests for passenger aircraft that are merely flying over US soil (not even landing in the US) meet US security approval.


Flying *over* the USA is not the same as navigating near it.

EyeBrock EyeBrock:
Come on Bart, the US enforces strict control of it's territory. Getting all 'international' on us is a bit hypocritical.


We do. You're right. But at the same time we also allow even foreign warships to close to within 12 nautical miles of our coastline because we want the same rights in *their* waters. We also do not interfere in international shipping to Canada that transits US waters in the St. Lawrence or the Strait of Juan de Fuca. We even go so far as to allow small foreign ships to use the Mississippi and the Chicago River to get to Canadian ports on the Great Lakes. And when we controlled the Panama Canal we allowed ships from countries we were hostile to through the Canal because of the treaties we had signed.



Come on Bart, if you Yanks force everybody flying through the US to follow your rules, why can't Canada force everybody sailing through our waters to follow ours?

You Yanks can't have it both ways!


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:47 pm
 


Zipperfish Zipperfish:
But I thought global warming was a pile of crap, so isn't this question merely academic? :lol:


Global warming aside, the Chinese are building more ice breakers than Canada is and pretty much anyone these days has subs that can patrol more of Canada's Arctic waters than Canada has. Meaning that even if the climate cools Canada still has to be concerned with sovereignty issues in that region.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:52 pm
 


EyeBrock EyeBrock:
Come on Bart, if you Yanks force everybody flying through the US to follow your rules, why can't Canada force everybody sailing through our waters to follow ours?

You Yanks can't have it both ways!


We don't force aircraft that fly outside of our territory to conform to our rules and we don't bother with shipping outside of our trerritory. The reason we allow ships through our waterways is because of treaties whose principles predate the advent of aircraft.

Like I said, I'm on your side on this. But what I see needing to happen is for Canada to have the CF patrol and control the NW Passage because preventing traffic from transiting that passage mean Canada must withdraw from, or as you pointed out, renegotiate numerous treaties for the sole advantage of Canada...and that is not likely to happen.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 3:55 pm
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Zipperfish Zipperfish:
But I thought global warming was a pile of crap, so isn't this question merely academic? :lol:


Global warming aside, the Chinese are building more ice breakers than Canada is and pretty much anyone these days has subs that can patrol more of Canada's Arctic waters than Canada has. Meaning that even if the climate cools Canada still has to be concerned with sovereignty issues in that region.


Outside of attempting to help themselves to Canadian Arctic Rights
does China have much of a need for ice breakers?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 3:58 pm
 


GreenTiger GreenTiger:
Outside of attempting to help themselves to Canadian Arctic Rights
does China have much of a need for ice breakers?


Yes. So they can help themselves to US, Russian, Norwegian, and Danish Arctic rights, too. :wink:


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:21 pm
 


All we need up there is a police vessel so they can stop ships and tell them to produce their boating license, have they any booze on board etc.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:12 pm
 


We don't need anything but defense and customs up there. I don't care who uses our water. But it comes with a price and if you use our territory without permission or paying that price prepare to lose men and a ship. BTW everyone saying "BUY THIS BUY THAT!" THIS IS CANADA FFS! We built the damn Avro! If we could get better goverments we could BUILD THEM! CANADA!!! people not High&Buy City!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:43 am
 


Wullu Wullu:
So, someone finally decided to mention that the waters of the passage are not ours to dictate over?

Wow!

It's why they are called a "passage". They no more belong to us than the Straights of Gibraltar belong to the UK or Morroco. Or the waters of the Agean belong to Greece.

My fellow Canucks really need to pull their heads out on this one. It's an ocean going passage when ice conditions permit. We co no more decide who gets to use it than the UK and France can decide who gets to use the English Channel.


Get your head out of your own arse, you just quoted a string of international passages that are international because the waters lie between different countries!
The only comparisons are the Bosporous and Straight of Magellan, one international due to historical wars and treaties and once ceded as many countries used it before Chile even existed.
All we need is 3 or 4 Coast Guard icebreakers to patrol it. Not warships.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:42 am
 


Coastguard ships with deck guns, choppers and boarding teams......


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:34 am
 


EyeBrock EyeBrock:
Coastguard ships with deck guns, choppers and boarding teams......


And the winner is...

Image


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:03 pm
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
EyeBrock EyeBrock:
Coastguard ships with deck guns, choppers and boarding teams......


And the winner is...

Image


Can it do ice?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:06 pm
 


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


she can be refitted....


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:15 pm
 


EyeBrock EyeBrock:
Can it do ice?


Yes, but only in the Officer's Mess. :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:49 pm
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
EyeBrock EyeBrock:
Can it do ice?


Yes, but only in the Officer's Mess. :wink:


I do believe that's Her Majesty's Ship Ocean!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:58 pm
 


EyeBrock EyeBrock:
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
EyeBrock EyeBrock:
Can it do ice?


Yes, but only in the Officer's Mess. :wink:


I do believe that's Her Majesty's Ship Ocean!


Indeed, it is. Given the way things work it may one day sport a Maple Leaf. [flag]


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