[Brenda]

andyt andyt:

So you mean Singh? Don't know why he got one, maybe for being a good immigrant or something. He lost if for being disbarred from the Upper Canada Law Society for professional misconduct.

Next up - Conrad Black and Garth Drabinski. But I guess Ahkenaten would leave them theirs too, since they didn't kill anybody. Same with Ahenakew. He just said some nasty things.

Professional misconduct is a different thing imo than not being able to cope with life... He made some poor personal choices, but still raised over $13 million... Not for himself...

[Akhenaten]

Brenda Brenda:

andyt andyt:

So you mean Singh? Don't know why he got one, maybe for being a good immigrant or something. He lost if for being disbarred from the Upper Canada Law Society for professional misconduct.

Next up - Conrad Black and Garth Drabinski. But I guess Ahkenaten would leave them theirs too, since they didn't kill anybody. Same with Ahenakew. He just said some nasty things.

Professional misconduct is a different thing imo than not being able to cope with life... He made some poor personal choices, but still raised over $13 million... Not for himself...

What's problematic in making a judgment call here too is the details are fuzzy. I mean fraud, for example, could be a huge pyramid scheme or it could merely be writing bad cheques. I'm not a big fan of drunken driving either.

[DerbyX]

Akhenaten Akhenaten:

DerbyX DerbyX:

I don't know man. He does have a point.

No he doesn't. Not remotely. He took something that was obviously, to any adult, an exaggeration and then went ahead and extrapolated even further and expects me it answer. Forget it. I'm sick of those games. Besides I don't really trust people who don't allow rep points.

I don't know if the rep thing was directed at me since I do it also or rather I did for a specific reason at the time and just didn't bother to turn it back on.

I think he did make a reasonable argument where you said you would support the stripping of the medal if ones becomes a serial killer where we would need some guidelines. He then mentioned others that did things more or less in severity that cost others their medal.

I think its a good example of something the OoC committee should have hard guidelines for to minimize "he deserved loosing it/no he did it"

We certainly get it when controversially people like Morgentaller get it. I think we had some 40 pages of heated debate on either side of that.

[andyt]

Brenda Brenda:

andyt andyt:

So you mean Singh? Don't know why he got one, maybe for being a good immigrant or something. He lost if for being disbarred from the Upper Canada Law Society for professional misconduct.

Next up - Conrad Black and Garth Drabinski. But I guess Ahkenaten would leave them theirs too, since they didn't kill anybody. Same with Ahenakew. He just said some nasty things.

Professional misconduct is a different thing imo than not being able to cope with life... He made some poor personal choices, but still raised over $13 million... Not for himself...

And Singh supposedly got all of us to sing (no pun) Kumbaya and make our great experiment in multiculturalism work better. Fonyo didn't create 13 mil, he got other Canadians to donate it, who knows how much of this they would have donated anyway.

The dollar amount mentioned in the Singh piece is $2000, Fony's $11,000. If we're going to cut Fonyo a break for not being able to cope with life, there are a lot of other people cheating supermarkets, driving drunk and bashing people over the head who would like the same deal.

[Brenda]

Akhenaten Akhenaten:

Brenda Brenda:

andyt andyt:

So you mean Singh? Don't know why he got one, maybe for being a good immigrant or something. He lost if for being disbarred from the Upper Canada Law Society for professional misconduct.

Next up - Conrad Black and Garth Drabinski. But I guess Ahkenaten would leave them theirs too, since they didn't kill anybody. Same with Ahenakew. He just said some nasty things.

Professional misconduct is a different thing imo than not being able to cope with life... He made some poor personal choices, but still raised over $13 million... Not for himself...

What's problematic in making a judgment call here too is the details are fuzzy. I mean fraud, for example, could be a huge pyramid scheme or it could merely be writing bad cheques. I'm not a big fan of drunken driving either.

Yeah, thats true too... I don't know, it's sad...

[Akhenaten]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Akhenaten Akhenaten:

DerbyX DerbyX:

I don't know man. He does have a point.

No he doesn't. Not remotely. He took something that was obviously, to any adult, an exaggeration and then went ahead and extrapolated even further and expects me it answer. Forget it. I'm sick of those games. Besides I don't really trust people who don't allow rep points.

I don't know if the rep thing was directed at me since I do it also or rather I did for a specific reason at the time and just didn't bother to turn it back on.

I think he did make a reasonable argument where you said you would support the stripping of the medal if ones becomes a serial killer where we would need some guidelines. He then mentioned others that did things more or less in severity that cost others their medal.

I think its a good example of something the OoC committee should have hard guidelines for to minimize "he deserved loosing it/no he did it"

We certainly get it when controversially people like Morgentaller get it. I think we had some 40 pages of heated debate on either side of that.

I said this:
"I agree. I mean maybe I could understand if he turned into some notorious killer like Bernardo or something but not for this."

-- which I'm obviously exaggerating. You can tell by the way I didn't simply say murder but brought forward a really notorious one. 20+ years on the planet would allow you to recognize it as an exaggeration as well.

He replies with this:
"So what would the cutoff point be? Obviously serial killers then, but what about just one little murder? If i promise not to do it again?"

and then this:
"I'm babbling about you saying that it needs to rise to the level of a Paul Bernardo to be stripped of the medal, and asking you where you see the cutoff point? Rape OK? Child abuse? "



Now there's really only two choices here: he's beyond argumentative, or he has the cognitive skills of the Rain Man and takes everything literally. I can afford to wait and answer someone who qualifies as neither.

[ASLplease]

Some would consider morgantaller a serial killer

[andyt]

Asking somebody what their cutoff point is for losing the OOC is a very reasonable question, but I guess, Ahk, you don't have a reasonable answer.

We make cutoffs all the time. eg: Non-citizens can be deported for conviction of a crime that has a possible 10 year sentence. (Bar is set far too high,) IMO.

I think the OOC is given out too freely, and should at least have more stringent criteria of revocation.

[ASLplease]

This guy was good enough to recieve the order of Canada.now he's not.

not many people can say that.

Perhaps, his 'dethroning' is the most appropriate way for the record to reflect the man.

[Akhenaten]

andyt andyt:

Asking somebody what their cutoff point is for losing the OOC is a very reasonable question

Yes but that isn't what I said was unreasonable is it? Can you go back to the paragraph and point out for daddy what the writer says is unreasonable? Sure ya can.

andyt andyt:

but I guess, Ahk, you don't have a reasonable answer.

Yeah well guessing is whatchew do isn't it? I already gave a reasonable answer to someone reasonable. Thus ends the lesson.

[andyt]

Akhenaten Akhenaten:

andyt andyt:

but I guess, Ahk, you don't have a reasonable answer.

Yeah well guessing is whatchew do isn't it? I already gave a reasonable answer to someone reasonable. Thus ends the lesson.

Please enlighten me as to the totality of your answer, by quoting a previous post of yours where you give your cutoff point for losing the OOC. The only one I recall was "Paul Bernardo or something." (hint, that's not reasonable).

[Akhenaten]

andyt andyt:

Please enlighten me as to the totality of your answer

<clears throat>

No.

Next time address me reasonably.




(cue unreasonable, "I guess Akh blah blah blah" response.)

[andyt]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Akhenaten Akhenaten:

I don't know man. He does have a point. Plenty of people have had their orders stripped for stuff less then what this guy got and the order does have continued good behaviour as a requirement.

Ahkenaten and I both have a point, ie an opinion on whether he should lose his OOC. But you know what they say about opinions.

But Ahkenaten, when you use an extreme example such as Bernardo, it doesn't advance the debate at all. I could reply "Well it's not as if Fonyo lost his OOC for J walking." Doesn't advance my argument at all, does it?

But my saying that for me violence is a cut off, as is a repeated pattern of behavior, that I think is a reasonable position. You seem to want to fuss, rather than just coming up with yours.

[poquas]

ASLplease ASLplease:

Some would consider morgantaller a serial killer

Not under Canadian law.

$1:

But as an adult, he repeatedly butted up against the law, racking up convictions ranging from assault with a weapon, to fraud, to possession of a stolen vehicle. He has also been convicted several times of impaired driving.

This isn't someone deserving of such an honour.

[Yogi]

In short, the OoC is awarded for exemplary/selfless actions with the sole purpose of making Canada a better country; making life better for citizens of Canada.

Resignation and removal
Main article: Removal from the Order of Canada
Resignations from the order can take place only through the prescribed channels, which include the member submitting to the Secretary General of the Order of Canada a letter notifying the chancellery of his or her desire to quit their membership, and only with the Governor General's approval can the resignation take effect.[64] On 1 June 2009, the Governor General accepted the resignations of astronomer and inventor René Racine, pianist Jacqueline Richard, and Cardinal Jean-Claude Turcotte;[65][66] and, on 11 January 2010, did the same for Renato Giuseppe Bosisio, an engineering professor, and Father Lucien Larré;[67] no reason was given for any of the resignations, though Larré had stated months earlier that he intended to resign in protest to the appointment of Henry Morgentaler.[citation needed] It was also reported that other constituents of the Order of Canada had, in reaction to Henry Morgentaler's induction into their ranks, indicated that they would return or had returned their emblems in protest,[68][69] including organizations such as the Missionary Oblates of Mary Immaculate and Madonna House Apostolate doing so on behalf of deceased former members.[68][70]

Members may be removed from the order if the Advisory Council feels their actions have brought the society into disrepute. In order for this to be done, the council must agree to take action and then send a letter to the person both telling of the group's decision and requesting a response. Anyone removed from the order is required to return their insignia; while there are no formal rules dictating that the medallion and other paraphernalia must be returned, Christopher McCreery has stated in his book The Order of Canada: Its Origins, History and Development that since the Crown owns the insignia and scrolls, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police can be sent to retrieve the items by force. As of 2010, four people have been removed from the Order of Canada: Alan Eagleson, who was dismissed after being jailed for fraud in 1998;[71] David Ahenakew, who faced calls for his removal due to anti-Semitic comments he made in 2002;[72] T. Sher Singh, after the Law Society of Upper Canada found him guilty of professional misconduct and revoked his licence to practise law;[73] and Steve Fonyo, due to "his multiple criminal convictions, for which there are no outstanding appeals."[74][75]