[ShepherdsDog]

while the indians can be as violent as they want, knowing the authorities are afraid to do the right and just thing. I guess when the appointed authorities fail in their duty, then those who have given them that authority must roll up their sleeves and see that the interests of society are served.

[Wally_Sconce]

violence should be met with violence. the police should not back down

[Donny_Brasco]

Aging_Redneck Aging_Redneck:

I dont care how many times you've been 'shafted', get off your ass and get a job. thats what I had to do.

You don't care about us and we don't care about you.

Funny how that works.

[Donny_Brasco]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

while the indians can be as violent as they want, knowing the authorities are afraid to do the right and just thing. I guess when the appointed authorities fail in their duty, then those who have given them that authority must roll up their sleeves and see that the interests of society are served.

How are the interests of society served if Canada ignores its legal obligations regarding being accountable for the land they have taken and the treaties they have signed with the First Nations of this country?

Does it make you proud to know your forefathers signed agreements in good faith with our people and you choose to ignore them?

Does it make you proud to know land and resources have been stolen by unscrupulous people, leaving you to be accountable for that and to pay for that - while these same people got rich and left a pile of money for their offspring and the generations to follow?

Do you feel good that these same people that have left you indebted to the First Nations have towns, cities and streets named after them?

I would say not only did us Natives get shafted - so did the average Canadian.

Tell me all you'd like how you don’t own First Nations anything - the Canadian courts have agreed that you do and the government has systems to make these amends.

Good thing you have a job and pay your taxes.

[ShepherdsDog]

Sorry, I only have one father and the only papers he has signed regarding natives were their release papers from a provincial institution. Oh, and my antecedents took land titles granted to them by the Crown, not some tribe, just like I have.

$1:

Does it make you proud to know land and resources have been stolen by unscrupulous people

That's an issue you and the Blackfoot have to resolve between yourselves.

$1:

Does it make you proud to know land and resources have been stolen by unscrupulous people

Resources that a mesolithic society could never have exploited. Had we not harvested these resources Donny, would you be driving your pick up, watching your TV and be using your computer to talk about the evil whiteman? ...........what was that?..........oh, you're welcome!

$1:

Good thing you have a job and pay your taxes.

That's the wonderful thing about being an expat, the only taxes I pay are on investment income (which can be dealt with in such a fashion to minimize the amount the government gets to take) and property taxes.....most of which goes to fund schools in my area and infrastructure.

[Donny_Brasco]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

Sorry, I only have one father and the only papers he has signed regarding natives were their release papers from a provincial institution. Oh, and my antecedents took land titles granted to them by the Crown, not some tribe, just like I have.

$1:

Does it make you proud to know land and resources have been stolen by unscrupulous people

That's an issue you and the Blackfoot have to resolve between yourselves.

$1:

Does it make you proud to know land and resources have been stolen by unscrupulous people

Resources that a mesolithic society could never have exploited. Had we not harvested these resources Donny, would you be driving your pick up, watching your TV and be using your computer to talk about the evil whiteman? ...........what was that?..........oh, you're welcome!

$1:

Good thing you have a job and pay your taxes.

That's the wonderful thing about being an expat, the only taxes I pay are on investment income (which can be dealt with in such a fashion to minimize the amount the government gets to take) and property taxes.....most of which goes to fund schools in my area and infrastructure.

Like I said before, the hundreds of land claims that have been settled are based on law, not pity.

The spirit of the treaties were that we were all to benefit from such agreements.

Unfortunately white people with the attitudes such as yours decided that we were too uncivilized to farm with modern equipment, that we were too monolithic to be involved in the economy, and that we were to nomadic to be allowed off the reserve.

When the truth really is that we were expert traders, for our level of western education our treaties were well constructed and because of that our ability to farm and trade put us at an economic advantage to your forefathers.

And because we could not vote or have a say in the government of this country, the white government suppressed our ability to participate in the economy and build wealth within our nations.

If you read the treaties and think about the consequences of a community who are supplied with all the goods they need to farm and participate in building the local economy versus the white settlers who would not have had the same economic advantage as the treaty Indians...well then you see the plight of the white people and their complaints that they could not compete in such an environment.

So Indians were unable to participate in the emerging capitalist market as each of their transactions were to be sanctioned by the white Indian agent - who's best interest was not always the Indians. Furthermore, since white farmers used credit to obtain the necessary equipment, seed and everything else to run a business, while the Indians were unable to get credit - that pushed the natives further back from competing in market and sharing the bounty of the land that they has traded under treaty.

When you complain about the system, and how you had nothing and got a job, and how you are not responsible for the plight of First Nations - maybe get an education and understand the background of the situation. You'll notice that since 1960 when we were finally given the right to vote many things have changed for Indians.

We attend post-secondary in record numbers every successive year, our graduation rate from high school rises every year too.

Our employment rate rises every year. The number of houses we buy, businesses we start - people we employ - it all gets better.

In 1960 there were very few recognized land claims. Today there are around a thousand outstanding clams while a few hundred have been settled or rejected.

Instead of further punishing Indians, and by default all Canadians by "wishing away" the past, why not recognize the value of honouring Canada's commitments to its Treaties and the value of paying it's outstanding debt to the original inhabitants of this country. But I doubt you even care enough to read this far - perhaps its the inherent entitlement that Canadians feel along with the racism that every white person in taught by the system that never mentions how the white settlers needed to suppress the Indians and were scared to compete with them in their own system.

We can keep the lawyers rich and the taxpayers paying and the Indians poor by fighting over these things in court. Indians tend to be winning alot in court because these are proven cases, and again it’s not a handout out of pity. Or you can the the honourable thing and accept responsibility for the Canadian's legal obligations to the First Nations and recognize our course through history.

[ShepherdsDog]

$1:

our ability to farm and trade put us at an economic advantage to your forefathers

*snicker* Gee Donny, where's it's written in the history books about the great fields of grain that awed the colonists when they arrived? Where were all the great herds of domesticed animals? Only in South and Central America, in isolated patches of the Eastern Seaboard was there any real agricultural activity. The main reason true civilization didn't develop amongst the Iroquois people was they lacked the ability to produce surpluses. Subsistence farming was all that they had and they were the top of the ladder culturally. The overwhelming majority of the aboriginal tribes engaged in a hunter-gatherer society, that was nomadic.

$1:

We attend post-secondary in record numbers every successive year, our graduation rate from high school rises every year too.

The quality of many of those degrees is questionable. I've worked with BUNTEP(Brandon University Northern Teacher Education Program) graduates in the past, and except for a few, they're dumber than dogshit and as useless as tits on a boar. The program is a farce, it's been dumbed down to such a level that it should be called a Special Education degree, and special for all the wrong reasons.

[Donny_Brasco]

The treaties were meant to provide us the opportunity to adapt to a changing world. If you read the treaties you will note the annuities of farming equipment and other supplies.

Of course as a white farmer it would be a little difficult to if your competition were getting free supplies each year.

So in order to keep the natives from out-performing the white settlers - restrictions in commerce and mobility were placed on the Indians, thus leaving them with little opportunity to adapt to a farming lifestyle.

There are numerous accounts from historians and politicians noting the adaptability of the Natives and their successes in farming and the industrial schools.

As for your comments about the education of our people - another systemic barrier where racists like you would prefer to keep an equally qualified Native individual out of work by proclaiming that his education is not equal to that of a white person, even though you have no idea where they were educated and what they are capable of doing.

Again, the only advantage you gain is the ability to brag that you feel superior to us. The monetary cost to Canadians for holding this attitude is the welfare and social services costs for the individual that gets and education yet runs into folks like you in the workplace and decides they are better off on the reserve, on welfare, surrounded by people who accept him/her.

So instead of blaming Natives for these problems, try advocating for fair solutions that actually help all of us Canadians. Your obvious hatred and distain for Natives, and your twisted views on the history of this country really show your intolerance and ignorance.

[ShepherdsDog]

I'm a realist. When the majority of native graduates aren't all spoon fed, whether it be in elementary, secondary or post secondary education, then I'll be willing to accept them. I have no problem accepting the fact that Chinese, Japanese, Indian students have an equal and in many ways superior education. Fair solutions and fair outcomes go hand in hand.

I guess I'm going to have to take your word about me being a racist though, seeing as you're a professional in that field. However, your red neck has spread over your entire person, so we must all worship at the foot of the master,

[Public_Domain]

[Shadow_Flanker]

Im sick and tired of the militant natives laying seige to towns, points of infrastructure, and such. Im also sick of them calling white peolpe every racist name in the book. Trying to make me feel like complete crap, a racist, theif, an arrogant and ignorant low-life. Im tired of them attacking and terroizing people just because they live next or close a "currently disputed/seiged area". Im sick and tired of them attacking (physicaly and verbally) people just because they're white. Im tired of them "quoting" history of being "shafted", while other cultures have been "shafted" far worse (Jews, Ukraninans, Africans, Irish, Chinese, etc.) Im sick and tired of it all.

[commanderkai]

Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:

And lucky for the Indians - all of your violent resolution techniques are political suicide for governments. Why?

Because rational people know that us Indians have been shafted, and the rednecks and haters can spout off all they want - it won't change that fact.

And it won't change Canada's legal obligations to settle land claims.

Every fucking minority in this damn country has been shafted AT LEAST ONCE. Italians, Irish, Jewish, Japanese, Chinese, French Canadian, Eastern European, African...anybody I'm missing?

So just because you were shafted first makes you entitled?

[Donny_Brasco]

commanderkai commanderkai:

Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:

And lucky for the Indians - all of your violent resolution techniques are political suicide for governments. Why?

Because rational people know that us Indians have been shafted, and the rednecks and haters can spout off all they want - it won't change that fact.

And it won't change Canada's legal obligations to settle land claims.

Every fucking minority in this damn country has been shafted AT LEAST ONCE. Italians, Irish, Jewish, Japanese, Chinese, French Canadian, Eastern European, African...anybody I'm missing?

So just because you were shafted first makes you entitled?

Three reasons I feel entitled:

1) The Supreme Court of Canada says I am
2) Canada's constitution says I am
3) International law says I am

Do you have any reason to feel entitled to live on stolen land? If I steal a car and then paint it can I claim that it is mine? How about I pass that car to my grandkids and they change the tires, are they entitled to it?

How about I write a cheque for it but cancel the cheque because I might have paid too much?

Just because you live in Canada and pay taxes, you are not entitled to do as you please on our traditional lands - no matter when we got there or where we came from - under Canadian and International Law you have a duty to consult with us, and a duty to make just payments for lands that our ours. You have a duty to honour the treaties you have signed in exchange for the land you now use. And you have a duty to make treaties or arrangements for land that you call Canada that has not been ceded to Canada by its original inhabitants.

So while I agree Canada has fucked around alot of people, we have legal recourse, and we will use it to protect our interests.

Sending in the dogs, the police or the army to deal with us only makes the rest of the world sit up and notice Canada's pathetic record in terms of dealing with its own indigenous populations. It makes Canada look like China and other third world nations that prosecute and impoverish sections of their populations.

Of course there are steps to solve the problems we are having. It would be a waste of breath to try to explain them to you guys as your faux sense of entitlement will make it all seem like pandering to another special interest group.

So we'll see you on the highways and in the courts and so on and so forth.

[Donny_Brasco]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

I'm a realist. When the majority of native graduates aren't all spoon fed, whether it be in elementary, secondary or post secondary education, then I'll be willing to accept them. I have no problem accepting the fact that Chinese, Japanese, Indian students have an equal and in many ways superior education. Fair solutions and fair outcomes go hand in hand.

I'm walking through the mall at lunch with Two First Nations lawyers, one graduated from the U of Sask and the other from McGill - we are all dressed very professionally in our suits and ties - this old man white stops us and says "It good to see you Indians finally got some jobs".

Was that you?

[ShepherdsDog]

Nah, seeing the suits, I'd have asked if you were on your way to or from your court hearing.