[Delwin]

I lost my family a long time ago so fear is not a motivator for me. Now I just stick to facts.

[Freakinoldguy]

Delwin Delwin:

Ok your definition of war accurately describes every sporting event that has occured as a "war".

$1:

a situation in which people or groups compete with or fight against each other

And although I have had some situations in which i competed with others like a chess match or arm wrestle, i would not describe myself as "war tested".

War can certainly occur between groups whom are not both nation states, like a civil war for example, but if you are trying to say that Canada is currently in a state of war when no declaration has been made, you are wrong.
We are not at war with the mafia, the drug cartels, the kkk, obesity or any other non nation-state because no declaration has been made. Some video by some chump doesnt constitute a formal declaration of war. Ie we are very committed to an extremely important conflict but Canada is not in a state of war.

That's not the argument here. The argument is that the term war is defined exclusively by and for nations. For the record we have only declared war once and that was 1939 but, in the context used by Mr. Trudeau it's a mistake to say we're not at war because we're definitely involved in "a situation in which people or groups compete with or fight against each other" which meets the criteria of the dictionary term.

So by definition we are at war whether the PM thinks we are or not.

[Delwin]

Dont be ridiculous, by that definition the raptors and celtics are also conducting a war tonight. Its a piss poor definition and i would source the UN and constitutional definitions but I hate semantic arguments. The point he is making is that we are not at war, and it is true, we will not be over extended or drawn into a conflict without deciding to do so first as a nation, democratically. If we declare war on Monday's we also wont be invoking article 5, even if they get really bad. We will make our decisions as a people and honour our international commitments but not because of a legal loophole, but because it is the right thing. So fuck off and wait.

[peck420]

FoG,

Nitpicky...I know, but Canada has technically declared war 4 times. All of which pertained to WW2, but 4 separate times, involving 6 separate groups.

Sept.1, 1939: Declared war against Germany.
June 11, 1940: Declared war against Italy.
Dec. 7, 1941: Declared war against Finland, Hungary, and Romania.
Dec. 8, 1941: Declared war against Japan.

[sandorski]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Delwin Delwin:

OK, so everyone is pissed that Trudeau didn't take time to unilaterally redefine Canada's definition of war. I would actually be pissed if he did, unless he declared war on allergy season, because that is something we actually need..

Well, when Canada eventually suffers a similar attack as what happened in Belgium then don't cry when other countries turn around and rebuff Canada's pleas for help by saying, "Sorry, chum, but according to your own definition you're not at war so our Article Five obligations don't apply. We'll be sure to put your flag on our Facebook page but that's about it."

Except we haven't rebuffed anyone's plea for help.

[Freakinoldguy]

peck420 peck420:

FoG,

Nitpicky...I know, but Canada has technically declared war 4 times. All of which pertained to WW2, but 4 separate times, involving 6 separate groups.

Sept.1, 1939: Declared war against Germany.
June 11, 1940: Declared war against Italy.
Dec. 7, 1941: Declared war against Finland, Hungary, and Romania.
Dec. 8, 1941: Declared war against Japan.

Nope, not nitpicky. Anal yes, nitpicky no.

[peck420]

That's the closet to anal I can get...since getting married.

Thanks!

[Proculation]

My understanding of NATO is that if a nation is attacked, every members were attacked and are at war. France joined back NATO in 2009 and Belgium is there since the treaty in 1949.

[peck420]

Proculation Proculation:

My understanding of NATO is that if a nation is attacked, every members were attacked and are at war. France joined back NATO in 2009 and Belgium is there since the treaty in 1949.

The attacked NATO member must invoke Article 5 for that to apply.

The second Belgium does though, we are "at war" regardless of what Trudeau says...assuming, of course, that his next statement is not to withdraw from NATO.
(Don't worry, even he isn't that stupid...)

Edit to add:

In theory, if Belgium invokes Article 5, and NATO takes that and invokes Article 51 (United Nations), the majority of the world would be obligated to assist in the removal of Daesh. Would really show the world which side everybody is on.

[BeaverFever]

sandorski sandorski:

He was just being a stickler about the term "war". Should have not said it, but whatever.

Exactly but a huge part of being a good leader is to avoid the dumb sound bite especially after a tragedy. One would expect anyone except maybe Trump would understand instinctively not to say the words he said without having to think about it.

But it is informative to watch the righties get all worked up about being politically correct. You know since they pretend they're not.

[andyt]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

sandorski sandorski:

He was just being a stickler about the term "war". Should have not said it, but whatever.

Exactly but a huge part of being a good leader is to avoid the dumb sound bite especially after a tragedy. One would expect anyone except maybe Trump would understand instinctively not to say the words he said without having to think about it.

But it is informative to watch the righties get all worked up about being politically correct. You know since they pretend they're not.

We know that Trudeau has foot in mouth disease, this is another instance. And it does raise the question of just how committed he is to fighting ISIS. Being all rah rah lets turn the desert to sand is idiotic, but so is thinking that the military isn't a piece of the puzzle. And between that and the whip out the F18s comment, I do wonder if he thinks this will be solved only be Kumbaya.

I don't understand your last sentence? The righties getting worked up, well that's what they're here for. But what do you mean by being politically correct?

[Canadian_Mind]

andyt andyt:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

sandorski sandorski:

He was just being a stickler about the term "war". Should have not said it, but whatever.

Exactly but a huge part of being a good leader is to avoid the dumb sound bite especially after a tragedy. One would expect anyone except maybe Trump would understand instinctively not to say the words he said without having to think about it.

But it is informative to watch the righties get all worked up about being politically correct. You know since they pretend they're not.

We know that Trudeau has foot in mouth disease, this is another instance. And it does raise the question of just how committed he is to fighting ISIS. Being all rah rah lets turn the desert to sand is idiotic, but so is thinking that the military isn't a piece of the puzzle. And between that and the whip out the F18s comment, I do wonder if he thinks this will be solved only be Kumbaya.

I don't understand your last sentence? The righties getting worked up, well that's what they're here for. But what do you mean by being politically correct?

Once again I wish I could still positively rep you Andy.

[housewife]

Delwin Delwin:

I lost my family a long time ago so fear is not a motivator for me. Now I just stick to facts.

Fact is it doesn't mater what you want to call it there will be more violence and more death and more destruction.

I for one hope to hell that our foot in mouth pm isn't held against us

[BeaverFever]

andyt andyt:

I don't understand your last sentence? The righties getting worked up, well that's what they're here for. But what do you mean by being politically correct?

Yeah watching tv and posting at the same time I kind of garbled it.

Point was about righties who always complain about "political correctness" are gasping and having a conniption over Trudeaus politically incorrect statement.

[herbie]

Not really. The whining's been about being "forced" not to say racist, misogynist crap. What Trudeau said is politically incorrect because it actually is. The PM can't declare war. And there's about a snowball's chance in Hell of Parliament declaring war on something that's not a country.