[saturn_656]

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

saturn_656 saturn_656:

Keeping military spending under control hasn't been a concern for us for quite some time. My POV is that the military has been chronically underfunded/underequipped for decades. Even the Cold War didn't push us to do things properly.

If we brought our military sending up to that of our stingist allies, the press would go apeshit about our "run-away" military build-up. I was born in 1956. Our military is now exactly half the size of what it was then and our population has exactly doubled.

For some services it's worse than half, the RCAF fighter force for example is a pale shadow of what it once was.

In the 50's we had around 25 fighter squadrons (not including the RCN banshees). Today we have 3, if you include the training squadron.

At that rate of decline I'll probably see the end of the RCAF (as a combat capable force anyway) in my lifetime.

[Jabberwalker]

I will grant that defending agaist Strategic bombing is a bit obsolete but the treat still remains. If we make it too easy to fly bimbers over Canada, the threat escalates pretty quickly as it is a realtively inexpensive (and effectve with some stealth technology) way to deiver nuclear weapons into North America.

[saturn_656]

It's not just the air defence mission, we don't have enough planes to deploy a credible force abroad without leaving the NORAD mission short. The fighter force has been cut down to the bone, and it's only going to get worse once the Hornet is retired. Gov't plans to replace them with a mere 65 planes.

[Jabberwalker]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

It's not just the air defence mission, we don't have enough planes to deploy a credible force abroad without leaving the NORAD mission short. The fighter force has been cut down to the bone, and it's only going to get worse once the Hornet is retired. Gov't plans to replace them with a mere 65 planes.

... single engined, super-sohisticated hanger queens, to boot.

[saturn_656]

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

saturn_656 saturn_656:

It's not just the air defence mission, we don't have enough planes to deploy a credible force abroad without leaving the NORAD mission short. The fighter force has been cut down to the bone, and it's only going to get worse once the Hornet is retired. Gov't plans to replace them with a mere 65 planes.

... single engined, super-sohisticated hanger queens, to boot.

The pickings are pretty slim. Boeing is selling yesterday's fighter today, the Rafale still hasn't locked down a single export which makes you wonder, the Typhoon isn't much cheaper (if at all) than the 35, and if you rule out the 35 on the basis of its single engine than the Gripen is also out.

[Gunnair]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

saturn_656 saturn_656:

It's not just the air defence mission, we don't have enough planes to deploy a credible force abroad without leaving the NORAD mission short. The fighter force has been cut down to the bone, and it's only going to get worse once the Hornet is retired. Gov't plans to replace them with a mere 65 planes.

... single engined, super-sohisticated hanger queens, to boot.

The pickings are pretty slim. Boeing is selling yesterday's fighter today, the Rafale still hasn't locked down a single export which makes you wonder, the Typhoon isn't much cheaper (if at all) than the 35, and if you rule out the 35 on the basis of its single engine than the Gripen is also out.

Russian...

[commanderkai]

I can't tell if people actually think buying Russian equipment is a feasible option, or if they're just trolling. Why not Chinese if we're considering Russian? We might get some better deals from them.

Let's just hope there's never a flareup in East Asia, or in the Arctic that ever involves either of them, since we'll be somewhat screwed for spare parts and replacements.

[saturn_656]

I'd eat my shorts if the Russians offered the PAK FA.

[Gunnair]

commanderkai commanderkai:

I can't tell if people actually think buying Russian equipment is a feasible option, or if they're just trolling. Why not Chinese if we're considering Russian? We might get some better deals from them.

Let's just hope there's never a flareup in East Asia, or in the Arctic that ever involves either of them, since we'll be somewhat screwed for spare parts and replacements.

Trolling?

You sit on the sidelines and offer internet advice, that's where you tapped out. A lot of military folk, fortunately, are a lot smarter than you when it comes to weighing all options for hardware.

Stick with COD, Kai.

[commanderkai]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Trolling?

You sit on the sidelines and offer internet advice, that's where you tapped out. A lot of military folk, fortunately, are a lot smarter than you when it comes to weighing all options for hardware.

Stick with COD, Kai.

No offense, Gunnair, I don't think you ever mentioned you are high up enough in the Canadian military or Canadian politics to have actual say in Canada's military procurement process. Although you might consider it a serious option, I don't see your opinion, if you actually believe that Russian/Chinese equipment is a legitimate option, I don't see said views being common or politically influential within Canada's procurement process. Generally, I only see those views on Internet forums like these.

Plus, my gaming taste are nowhere close to FPS.

[Gunnair]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

I'd eat my shorts if the Russians offered the PAK FA.

AT $120 million a pop, these would be worth a look as well.

[Gunnair]

commanderkai commanderkai:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Trolling?

You sit on the sidelines and offer internet advice, that's where you tapped out. A lot of military folk, fortunately, are a lot smarter than you when it comes to weighing all options for hardware.

Stick with COD, Kai.

No offense, Gunnair, I don't think you ever mentioned you are high up enough in the Canadian military or Canadian politics to have actual say in Canada's military procurement process. Although you might consider it a serious option, I don't see your opinion, if you actually believe that Russian/Chinese equipment is a legitimate option, I don't see said views being common or politically influential within Canada's procurement process. Generally, I only see those views on Internet forums like these.

Plus, my gaming taste are nowhere close to FPS.

And tapping out as a gamer, I doubt even Sun news would be sniffing about for your procurement opinions, either, though I could be wrong.

That being said, I don't think we should be building in Canada either, and that is an opinion shared by many on and off the interwebz though not currently a political option either.

[commanderkai]

Gunnair Gunnair:

And tapping out as a gamer, I doubt even Sun news would be sniffing about for your procurement opinions, either, though I could be wrong.

That being said, I don't think we should be building in Canada either, and that is an opinion shared by many on and off the interwebz though not currently a political option either.

*Shrugs* So we both agree neither of us have any real say in Canada's procurement process? Glad to hear it.

Seriously, Call of Duty? Blech.

[Gunnair]

commanderkai commanderkai:

Gunnair Gunnair:

And tapping out as a gamer, I doubt even Sun news would be sniffing about for your procurement opinions, either, though I could be wrong.

That being said, I don't think we should be building in Canada either, and that is an opinion shared by many on and off the interwebz though not currently a political option either.

*Shrugs* So we both agree neither of us have any real say in Canada's procurement process? Glad to hear it.

Seriously, Call of Duty? Blech.

Which goes back to the original assertion of trolling in return for musing on a hardware procurement process no one has a say in.

Stupid. Hence the COD devotee suggestion.

[commanderkai]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Which goes back to the original assertion of trolling in return for musing on a hardware procurement process no one has a say in.

Stupid. Hence the COD devotee suggestion.

Because I rarely ever see people argue non-Western equipment as a viable option for the Canadian military. Commonly, I see it as a way to stick it to the Americans (for whatever reason), and because it's cheaper than Western counterparts.

I'll add this question here...Gunnair, putting aside your sarcasm , I actually do respect your opinions, even if I disagree. In the unlikely event of actual conflict, or hell, even the relatively likely event that relations between Canada and Russia sours, for whatever reason, how would Canada handle acquiring spare parts from a nation unwilling to sell them to us?

Obviously this scenario hypothetically exists with our relations with the US, and with Europe, but it's far less likely than with Russia, in my opinion.