[Brenda]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Brenda Brenda:

I found this pretty unnecessary too... Just sayin (Michigan)
http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/16/us/michig ... index.html

Over 40 shots necessary to bring a knife wielder down? Come on now.

I agree with the relative; that was a firing squad.

Note that the police are witholding the video saying that the video cameras in multiple police cars were not working.

Uh-huh. Right.

If the department doesn't come clean, and soon, then at some point there'll be a Federal civil rights lawsuit and the cops will be looking at being guests of the Federal government for a while.

It's just too bad for those assholes (can't call them anything else) that EVERYONE has their own video camera nowadays and uses it. Can't confiscate security camera footage anymore, or more, that's a waste of time. Something will ALWAYS show up.

I don't usually bitch at cops, but this was ridiculous, as is wounding 9 innocent people in NYC during rush hour. They should have known better.

[uwish]

so much for 'only police should have guns' type argument. I bet the cops are guilty of gross negligence if they shot bystanders.

[andyt]

uwish uwish:

so much for 'only police should have guns' type argument. I bet the cops are guilty of gross negligence if they shot bystanders.

Nice try but inverted logic. If civilians were also armed there would just be way more of these "collateral damage" shootings.

[uwish]

i doubt it, they are statistically fare better marksmen than the average police beat cop.

[Brenda]

uwish uwish:

i doubt it, they are statistically fare better marksmen than the average police beat cop.

They would have been shot at also if they would have had a gun visible. The bad guy had a gun visible, he's dead now.

[Xort]

Brenda Brenda:

They would have been shot at also if they would have had a gun visible. The bad guy had a gun visible, he's dead now.

Rather than what happened; unarmed people were shot by the police because the police can't be assed to train with their pistols.

[Lemmy]

uwish uwish:

i doubt it, they are statistically fare better marksmen than the average police beat cop.

Bullshit. Marksmanship means nothing. You'd be shitting your pants with fear and adrenaline and would likely blow your own foot off while pulling your gun out.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

uwish uwish:

i doubt it, they are statistically fare better marksmen than the average police beat cop.

And you know this because they can shoot paper targets with better accuracy?
Big difference between shooting a nice, friendly paper target and shooting someone that's sending lead in your direction.
I take it that outide of the those that have served or are currently serving in our police and military, not very many people here have actually been shot at.

I'm a pretty damn good shot myself, or I was anyway Even then I wasn't naive enough to think that accuracy on the range translates into the same accuracy when yer trying to keep your fucking head down.

[Thanos]

Yeah, NYPD seems to be rather horrible at doing the overwhelming force thing. Worse even than the LAPD was/is.

[Xort]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

And you know this because they can shoot paper targets with better accuracy?
Big difference between shooting a nice, friendly paper target and shooting someone that's sending lead in your direction.

But part of the training for the military is to create a muscle memory of proper shooting methods, so that in times of stress a shooter has a higher chance of doing stuff right.

Many police forces fail shooting paper targets correctly, yet some people think only the police should be armed because they are 'trained'. As if calling the group of people police somehow magicly makes them better at shooting.

If you don't practice you can't get better. Even if the practice isn't 100% real for the situation you are going to shoot in, the motions of proper marksmenship carry over.

Basic point, if a civilian shooter, shot like many of the police do the person would be facing criminal charges and have their weapons seized. I think if more than 10% of rounds fired by the police miss the body of the person they are trying to hit the officers should face criminal charges.

If you can't hit 90% of the time, then stop being a police officer.

On and if the police hit a bystander the officer should be charged just like I would be if I was shooting wildly and struck another person.

At most the police should be shooting double taps. If they are in a situation of kill the other person like a hostage or terrorist action, then I can agree to a double tap to the chest and one to the head.

Police shouldn't be shooting covering fire, they shouldn't be using a full mag on a single person, they shouldn't be filling a suspect full of more holes than the person naturaly has.

~

As a technical improvement, maybe police forces may want to move to a larger weapons platform that will give the officers better control over their weapons. Many options in the range of PDWs and SMGs are around, and those would help a poorly trained officer get rounds on target.

[Brenda]

Maybe they should give ALL NYPD officers a taser gun instead of a real gun with bullets. Just a random thought.

[andyt]

Who are these "they" who are better shots than the police? The argument is anybody with no criminal record and no history of mental illness should be allowed to carry a concealed weapon. Are they really going to be better than trained police, or react any better than trained police? Pile of bs.

This incident may be a good argument for better police training, if it's shown the police did not respond with best procedures. It's not an argument for CCW.

[raydan]

Brenda Brenda:

Maybe they should give ALL NYPD officers a taser gun instead of a real gun with bullets. Just a random thought.

You can bring a taser to a knife fight but not to a gun fight.

[uwish]

Lemmy Lemmy:

uwish uwish:

i doubt it, they are statistically fare better marksmen than the average police beat cop.

Bullshit. Marksmanship means nothing. You'd be shitting your pants with fear and adrenaline and would likely blow your own foot off while pulling your gun out.

Oh would I? I am so happy your opinion of my behavior in a fictitious incident makes you feel better, the fact is the cops shot innocent people. You don't know one dam thing about how I or anyone would react in a tense situation, so stop trying to dodge the fact that the NYPD caused more damage than the armed assailant!

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/25/justice/n ... ?hpt=hp_t1

[Gunnair]

uwish uwish:

i doubt it, they are statistically fare better marksmen than the average police beat cop.

And that has nothing to do with a shoot out.