[Lemmy]

Bacardi4206 Bacardi4206:

I don't understand what exact right is being broken here? The right to drive without being bothered?

Especially Sections 8, 9, 11c and 24 of the Charter, but also Sections 7, 10b, 12 and 15.

Section 7: "Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice."

Section 8: "Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure."

Section 9: "Everyone has the right not to be arbitrarily detained or imprisoned."

Section 10(b): "Everyone has the right on arrest or detention to retain and instruct counsel without delay and to be informed of that right."

Section 11(c): "Everyone has the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty according to law in a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal."

Section 12: "Everyone has the right not to be subjected to any cruel and unusual treatment or punishment."

Section 15: "Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination."

Section 24: " Where a court concludes that evidence was obtained in a manner that infringed or denied any rights or freedoms guaranteed by this Charter, the evidence shall be excluded if it is established that, having regard to all the circumstances, the admission of it in the proceedings would bring the administration of justice into disrepute."

[EyeBrock]

herbie herbie:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

We are just more free over here Brenda. "reasonable grounds" is something that English speaking people have fought to preserve since 1215.

You cannot be randomly stopped and searched walking down the street.
You can't be pulled over at random and have your car searched.
Nor stopped walking down the sidewalk to show papers or submit DNA, or explain your wherabouts.
Without due cause.
Being the 12th car in line, or the next in the prime number sequence in line is not due cause.
Seeing you enter a car impaired. Or leaving the parking lot of a known drinking establishment or party is due cause.
Seeing you stub out a joint or smelling weed, or leaving the scene of a crime is due cause to search your car.
In a roadblock due cause is seeing smelling or noticing something illegal. Fuck it, if I'm driving a load of drunks home and the cop smells alcohol in the car, I concede that would be due cause (he can't tell WHO reeks) and I will have to comply. If he finds open alcohol. Then I didn't do my job (cause you ain't riding in my car with an open bottle no matter how much you whine)

But you won't be granting the power to someone to do something to me without due cause without one hell of a fight.
This is something Brenda may not understand about N America. Canadians may not have violently overthrown the Monarchs and despots who tell you what to do because they can but we insisted on it for just as long. Because in every historical instance the powers that be could do something, they did.

Take a look at the strangest coincidence of all: many of the posters who agree with allowing this abuse are posting on other threads against the requirement to even have a permit to have a gun!

Not me herbie. I'm not a fan of people own pistols and assault rifles that don't get them issued at work.

I'll have farmers and hunters having shotguns but why do people in the suburbs need magnums?

See, I'm a Tory who believes in the rule of law, but I don't believe in unjust laws.

I'm for gay marriage and I don't see why people should own weapons just for target practice.

I'm for immigration that stops the bogus refugees and cheats coming in and get's the right skills in that Canada needs.

Putting labels on people just because they have a Tory "C" on their avatar isn't the way to go.

[Scape]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Scape Scape:

The document signed on the taxes is a declaration that this is a true total and that you can be held liable if your report is found to be inaccurate. People go to jail for tax evasion/fraud as this is a crime. A drivers permit is also a document that is signed off on declaring the driver will adhere to the law of the province. Drunk driving is a crime, ergo a breach of that contract.

Spot checks are not warrants but neither are they home invasions on private property as the roads are public. There is a responsibility to maintain order and protect the public vs threats and DD kills. In areas where there is a history of DD the police already set up checkpoints and they very well may have suspicions on who the DD are but can only apprehend when they are in the act but that is not probable cause.

There very much is a reason. The blood that paints the roads is it. Alcoholism, is a medical condition and people are not jailed for illnesses. But they do need to seen as a threat to be removed from society or at least from behind the wheel for actions that put others at risk. The current regime simply allows them to get wise to how things are done making them even more dangerous drunks with an Icarus complex.

Checking your taxes is not placing you under arrest. Making you blow places you under arrest.

Then this Isn't a court?

[Brenda]

$1:

you might one day when you are late for something important because you were held up giving a breathalyzer!!!!

You might be late because you drive into a roadblock, or get a flat tire, or are speeding because you were too lazy to get of bed earlier, and damned, you got caught.

Being late is YOUR responsibility. Do you think my employer changes the times to start work just because it starts to snow? hell no, leave an hour early, YOUR PROBLEM.

Bogus reason, sorry Kate.

[ASLplease]

Bacardi4206 Bacardi4206:

ASLplease ASLplease:

let me ask you this question: do you randomly cycle count your stock room, or do you develop a strategy to cycle count the portions of your stock room that are likely to have problems?

I would if that strategy diddn't work and was complete shit.

I would have to think really hard to find a strategy that was that shitty. Even a cycle count of all of yesterday's active stock would be better than a totally random cycle count.

[ASLplease]

Yogi Yogi:

Time to 'put this one to bed'!

I say give it a trial run and then compare the stats. If, thereby, random checks prove to be a benefit, it becomes law.

I agree. In fact, lets try this with all of our rights. Who needs rights, laws are always benevolent in Canada.

[uwish]

I draw the line at random spot checks, if the police want to catch more drunks, set up more random spot checks where you have to roll down your window and talk to the cop. If he has reason to believe you have been drinking, then let the full weight of the law fall on the offender.

Thats it. I see a system allowing for random checks to be easily abused no matter what a cops intention is. It's just a bad idea.

[raydan]

All this will be moot in a few years anyways.

They'll have cameras (like speed cameras) that will be able to do a spectral analysis of the breath of every driver and determine if he/she's over the limit.

Now won't that be fun!

[DrCaleb]

Bacardi4206 Bacardi4206:

Regina Regina:

So do you have a problem with the police walking into your house to take a look around for no reason?

I have a problem with police walking into my home for no reason, however that is not what is stated in this article or has anything to with this. This is cops pulling random people over for random breathalyzer tests which I do not have a problem with.

I'd rather be one of the random people being pulled over for a breathalyzer test even if I am late for something just for the increased chance it will better decrease car accidents. Since you posted that. I'll do the same and ask you a question.

So you do not have a problem with some drunk driver driving on a high-way that may contain your children? Like if they passed there drivers lisence or already got one and one day decided to take the high-way and some drunk driver is driving beside them and crashes into them because he was drunk. You are totally cool with that?

The fact is drunk driving is stupid, however people do it because they are lazy. They go to get a drink without thinking of what to do with there car afterwards. Once there done it's much easier just to get in there car instead of paying for parking, getting a cab and come picking it up afterwards or driving home and going to a local pub near there house and just walking home. Nobody ever thinks to do that firsthand. Taking care of there driving situation beforehand.

Drunk drivers endanger themselves and everybody on the road. I am completly fine with cops randomly pulling over people and giving them this test. What do I care since I am smart enough not to drink and drive. Mostly for the fact that I can't afford to get my car fixed I ever got into a accident. If some cop pulls me over for a random test. I am going to pass it and tests aren't long so it's a quick stop, test and than get back in my car and drive. Not a problem.

A perfect example of the "for the safety of all" and "think of the children" fallacies if I ever read it.

It's irrelevant if you pass the test after your rights have been violated. If cops were on every street corner, giving people random "pat down" searches and "show me your ID" on every street corner to ensure you aren't selling drugs - would you be as agreeable because you passed that test too?

[Brenda]

Aren't you supposed to be able to show some id whenever asked for?

[DrCaleb]

Brenda Brenda:

Aren't you supposed to be able to show some id whenever asked for?

Nope. If you are driving in a car, you have to show licence, proof or registration.

But walking down the street, no. I don't have to prove who I am to do that. Even if I have ID, I usually refuse to produce it upon request.

[Zipperfish]

Bacardi4206 Bacardi4206:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Bacardi Bacardi:

This isn't threatening your freedoms or rights.

Yes it is.

Because a cop can randomly pull you over for a test that can help save lives but putting a stop to drunk drivers? I would understand that if say cops were only randomly pulling over blacks or muslims, etc. Invading your home randomly is against your right but as soon as your in your car and on the road. You are subjected to be pulled over for whatever reason.

I don't understand what exact right is being broken here? The right to drive without being bothered?

Section 8 of the Charter, my right from unreasonable search and seizure.

[herbie]

Eyebrock, I didn't use the Tory word. This thing has support from people of all stripes who don't give their own rights much value.
I'm also a rural person and ex-hobby farmer, so I've been against the gun registry for years. I agree with you the guy in a Kitsalino apartment doesn't need an Uzzi, but it's nuts to register my old 22 that's used only on my own property to protect the chickens.

This whole thing is because there's been a bump in fatalities. So do your job with the laws you already have. More roadblocks and more cops on patrol, not kissing away due process.
At any given time here there are 4 cops playing cards in the copshop for every one on the street. And the whole town knows they ALL go off shift around 2 am. So all the breakins happen when they aren't around. All the drunks wait until late.

http://www.theprovince.com/news/Editori ... story.html

An editorial I fully agree with

[Brenda]

$1:

I agree with you the guy in a Kitsalino apartment doesn't need an Uzzi, but it's nuts to register my old 22 that's used only on my own property to protect the chickens.

There you have the problem. If you can have an unregistered gun, so can the guy in Kitsilano. If you can shoot whatever on your property, so can the guy on his balcony in Kitsilano... That he kills my kid that is playing on the street, is just "an accident"...

[EyeBrock]

herbie herbie:

Eyebrock, I didn't use the Tory word. This thing has support from people of all stripes who don't give their own rights much value.
I'm also a rural person and ex-hobby farmer, so I've been against the gun registry for years. I agree with you the guy in a Kitsalino apartment doesn't need an Uzzi, but it's nuts to register my old 22 that's used only on my own property to protect the chickens.

This whole thing is because there's been a bump in fatalities. So do your job with the laws you already have. More roadblocks and more cops on patrol, not kissing away due process.
At any given time here there are 4 cops playing cards in the copshop for every one on the street. And the whole town knows they ALL go off shift around 2 am. So all the breakins happen when they aren't around. All the drunks wait until late.

http://www.theprovince.com/news/Editori ... story.html

An editorial I fully agree with

Hey, in your rush to tell us all how bad your local cops are you missed the point that I am against this proposal.