[mtbr]

stemmer stemmer:

JD Power Ranks Customer Service: Lexus on Top
http://www.gearlog.com/2009/02/jd_power ... servic.php

Even Chevy & Ford are ranked higher then Toyota.....

$1:

JD Power CSI Past 5 Years (2009-2005)
2009 CSI rank, automaker, score, then 2008-2007-2006-2005 rank & score
1. Lexus, 835 of 1000 points. 2008: 4th place, 915 points. 2007: 3T, 913. 2006: 1, 912. 2005: 4, 904
2. Jaguar, 810. 2008: 1, 923. 2007: 1, 925. 2006: 4, 908. 2005: 6, 900
3. BMW, 808. 2008: 9, 901. 2007: 14, 893. 2006: 16, 884. 2005: 17T, 875
4. Cadillac, 806. 2008: 2, 922. 2007: 3T, 913. 2006: 3, 909. 2005: 2, 911
5. Acura, 805. 2008: 7, 904. 2007: 12T, 894. 2006: 12, 889. 2005: 8, 896
6. Hummer, 804. 2008: 16, 892. 2007: 16, 890. 2006: 18, 882. 2005: --, NR
7. Land Rover, 803. 2008: 28, 863. 2007: 33T, 843. 2006: 32T, 840. 2005: 30, 845
8. Buick, 802. 2008: 3, 919. 2007: 2, 918. 2006: 2, 911. 2005: 7, 899
9. Saturn, 800. 2008: 10, 897. 2007: 6, 908. 2006: 7, 904. 2005: 3, 905
10. Lincoln, 798. 2008: 5, 913. 2007: 8, 901. 2006: 5, 906. 2005: 1, 915
11. Porsche, 792. 2008: 26, 873. 2007: 15, 892. 2006: 13T, 887. 2005: 19, 873
12. Audi, 789. 2008: 19, 887. 2007: 12T, 894. 2006: 9T, 890. 2005: 16, 876
13. Mercedes-Benz, 789. 2008: 20, 884. 2007: 22T, 872. 2006: 21, 872. 2005: 15, 878
14. Infiniti, 786. 2008: 8, 903. 2007: 10, 899. 2006: 13T, 887. 2005: 5, 901
15. Saab, 785. 2008: 12, 896. 2007: 20, 883. 2006: 19, 880. 2005: 17T, 875
16. GMC, 781. 2008: 12, 896. 2007: 11, 897. 2006: 20, 879. 2005: 23T, 860
17. Mini, 781. 2008: 17, 890. 2007: 7, 902. 2006: 9T, 890. 2005: 31, 844
18. Pontiac, 779. 2008: 15, 895. 2007: 9, 900. 2006: 8, 903. 2005: 11, 890
19. Chevrolet, 777. 2008: 12, 896. 2007: 18, 888. 2006: 13T, 887. 2005: 14, 882
20. Mercury, 776. 2008: 6, 908. 2007: 5, 912. 2006: 6, 905. 2005: 10, 894
21T. Mitsubishi, 767. 2008: 22, 880. 2007: 22T, 872. 2006: 30, 848. 2005: 32, 841
21T. Volvo, 767. 2008: 18, 888. 2007: 17, 889. 2006: 9T, 890. 2005: 9, 895
23. Hyundai, 763. 2008: 22, 880. 2007: 21, 873. 2006: 22, 869. 2005: 26, 855
24. Honda, 762. 2008: 10, 897. 2007: 19, 887. 2006: 17, 883. 2005: 13, 883
871
25. Ford, 757. 2008: 25, 875. 2007: 25T, 868. 2006: 24, 866. 2005: 20, 869
26. Chrysler, 746. 2008: 21, 882. 2007: 25T, 868. 2006: 23, 867. 2005: 21, 868
27. Scion, 739. 2008: 34, 845. 2007: 32, 848. 2006: --, NR. 2005: --, NR
28. Toyota, 736. 2008: 27, 871. 2007: 25T, 868. 2006: 26, 861. 2005: 25, 858
29. Dodge, 734. 2008: 29, 858. 2007: 28, 853. 2006: 25, 862. 2005: 22, 862
30. Subaru, 729. 2008: 24, 878. 2007: 24, 869. 2006: 27, 858. 2005: 23T, 860
31. Jeep, 727. 2008: 29, 858. 2007: 33T, 843. 2006: 28, 851. 2005: 28T, 847
32. Volkswagen, 725. 2008: 36, 842. 2007: 35, 821. 2006: 35, 810. 2005: 34, 820
33. Kia, 724. 2008: 35, 844. 2007: 29T, 851. 2006: 31, 843. 2005: 33, 833
34. Nissan, 723. 2008: 31, 857. 2007: 29T, 851. 2006: 29, 849. 2005: 28T, 847
35. Mazda, 716. 2008: 32, 851. 2007: 31, 849. 2006: 32T, 843. 2005: 27, 848
36. Suzuki, 702. 2008: 33, 846. 2007: 36, 820. 2006: 34, 823. 2005: 35, 819
37. Isuzu, NA. 2008: 37, 782. 2007: 37, 780. 2006: 36, 781. 2005: 36, 810

--. Industry Average, 761. 2008: --, 882. 2007: --, 876. 2006: --, 873. 2005: --,

CSI better be high for chevy

"examines satisfaction among vehicle owners who visit a service department for maintenance or repair work"

you'll spend a lot of time at the service center

[stemmer]

So you agree (based on your chart) domestics are quite reliable and as good as most imports (Mercury, Cadillac, Buick, Lincoln) all have better ratings then Honda...

4 of the 10 are domestics (Mercury, Cadillac, Lincoln, Buick)
4 are Japanese (Lexus, Toyota, Acura, Honda)
2 are European (BMW, Jaguar*)

* Jag - Do you count that as domestic as at the time it was part of Ford or Europe tally... I also realize they were sold a few months back...

[stemmer]

mtbr mtbr:

stemmer stemmer:

JD Power Ranks Customer Service: Lexus on Top
http://www.gearlog.com/2009/02/jd_power ... servic.php

Even Chevy & Ford are ranked higher then Toyota.....

$1:

JD Power CSI Past 5 Years (2009-2005)
2009 CSI rank, automaker, score, then 2008-2007-2006-2005 rank & score
1. Lexus, 835 of 1000 points. 2008: 4th place, 915 points. 2007: 3T, 913. 2006: 1, 912. 2005: 4, 904
2. Jaguar, 810. 2008: 1, 923. 2007: 1, 925. 2006: 4, 908. 2005: 6, 900
3. BMW, 808. 2008: 9, 901. 2007: 14, 893. 2006: 16, 884. 2005: 17T, 875
4. Cadillac, 806. 2008: 2, 922. 2007: 3T, 913. 2006: 3, 909. 2005: 2, 911
5. Acura, 805. 2008: 7, 904. 2007: 12T, 894. 2006: 12, 889. 2005: 8, 896
6. Hummer, 804. 2008: 16, 892. 2007: 16, 890. 2006: 18, 882. 2005: --, NR
7. Land Rover, 803. 2008: 28, 863. 2007: 33T, 843. 2006: 32T, 840. 2005: 30, 845
8. Buick, 802. 2008: 3, 919. 2007: 2, 918. 2006: 2, 911. 2005: 7, 899
9. Saturn, 800. 2008: 10, 897. 2007: 6, 908. 2006: 7, 904. 2005: 3, 905
10. Lincoln, 798. 2008: 5, 913. 2007: 8, 901. 2006: 5, 906. 2005: 1, 915
11. Porsche, 792. 2008: 26, 873. 2007: 15, 892. 2006: 13T, 887. 2005: 19, 873
12. Audi, 789. 2008: 19, 887. 2007: 12T, 894. 2006: 9T, 890. 2005: 16, 876
13. Mercedes-Benz, 789. 2008: 20, 884. 2007: 22T, 872. 2006: 21, 872. 2005: 15, 878
14. Infiniti, 786. 2008: 8, 903. 2007: 10, 899. 2006: 13T, 887. 2005: 5, 901
15. Saab, 785. 2008: 12, 896. 2007: 20, 883. 2006: 19, 880. 2005: 17T, 875
16. GMC, 781. 2008: 12, 896. 2007: 11, 897. 2006: 20, 879. 2005: 23T, 860
17. Mini, 781. 2008: 17, 890. 2007: 7, 902. 2006: 9T, 890. 2005: 31, 844
18. Pontiac, 779. 2008: 15, 895. 2007: 9, 900. 2006: 8, 903. 2005: 11, 890
19. Chevrolet, 777. 2008: 12, 896. 2007: 18, 888. 2006: 13T, 887. 2005: 14, 882
20. Mercury, 776. 2008: 6, 908. 2007: 5, 912. 2006: 6, 905. 2005: 10, 894
21T. Mitsubishi, 767. 2008: 22, 880. 2007: 22T, 872. 2006: 30, 848. 2005: 32, 841
21T. Volvo, 767. 2008: 18, 888. 2007: 17, 889. 2006: 9T, 890. 2005: 9, 895
23. Hyundai, 763. 2008: 22, 880. 2007: 21, 873. 2006: 22, 869. 2005: 26, 855
24. Honda, 762. 2008: 10, 897. 2007: 19, 887. 2006: 17, 883. 2005: 13, 883
871
25. Ford, 757. 2008: 25, 875. 2007: 25T, 868. 2006: 24, 866. 2005: 20, 869
26. Chrysler, 746. 2008: 21, 882. 2007: 25T, 868. 2006: 23, 867. 2005: 21, 868
27. Scion, 739. 2008: 34, 845. 2007: 32, 848. 2006: --, NR. 2005: --, NR
28. Toyota, 736. 2008: 27, 871. 2007: 25T, 868. 2006: 26, 861. 2005: 25, 858
29. Dodge, 734. 2008: 29, 858. 2007: 28, 853. 2006: 25, 862. 2005: 22, 862
30. Subaru, 729. 2008: 24, 878. 2007: 24, 869. 2006: 27, 858. 2005: 23T, 860
31. Jeep, 727. 2008: 29, 858. 2007: 33T, 843. 2006: 28, 851. 2005: 28T, 847
32. Volkswagen, 725. 2008: 36, 842. 2007: 35, 821. 2006: 35, 810. 2005: 34, 820
33. Kia, 724. 2008: 35, 844. 2007: 29T, 851. 2006: 31, 843. 2005: 33, 833
34. Nissan, 723. 2008: 31, 857. 2007: 29T, 851. 2006: 29, 849. 2005: 28T, 847
35. Mazda, 716. 2008: 32, 851. 2007: 31, 849. 2006: 32T, 843. 2005: 27, 848
36. Suzuki, 702. 2008: 33, 846. 2007: 36, 820. 2006: 34, 823. 2005: 35, 819
37. Isuzu, NA. 2008: 37, 782. 2007: 37, 780. 2006: 36, 781. 2005: 36, 810

--. Industry Average, 761. 2008: --, 882. 2007: --, 876. 2006: --, 873. 2005: --,

CSI better be high for chevy

"examines satisfaction among vehicle owners who visit a service department for maintenance or repair work"

you'll spend a lot of time at the service center

I'm sure a Chevy Impala, Monte Carlo or Corvette has a much better quality rating then a Cobalt or Cavalier...

Actually if you read Motor Trend, Car & Driver or Consumers Rating the Impala and Malibu are rated as good as Camry...

[mtbr]

stemmer stemmer:

So you agree (based on your chart) domestics are quite reliable and as good as most imports (Mercury, Cadillac, Buick, Lincoln) all have better ratings then Honda...

4 of the 10 are domestics (Mercury, Cadillac, Lincoln, Buick)
4 are Japanese (Lexus, Toyota, Acura, Honda)
2 are European (BMW, Jaguar*)

* Jag - Do you count that as domestic as at the time it was part of Ford or Europe tally... I also realize they were sold a few months back...

nope I wouldn't buy a Merc even if I could..what the hell do they make anyways?

Buick...old man car my fatherinlaw has a an Allure...it's not very alluring

Cadillac or Lincoln..starting price 40 grand no thanks..to get the same quality of a 20 grand Toyota

I'll just stop at the Lexus dealer and get BETTER quality for less

http://www.lexus.ca/lexus/experience/en ... &year=2009

[ziggy]

Aging_Redneck Aging_Redneck:

I know how it worked in the coal industry, and Ziggy can confirm this.

In the early 1990s, the some of the mines in BC were facing bankruptsy, and board of directors as well as the employees were calling for a government bailout.

What happened? the bailout never happened, the company went down the drain, and lots of people lost their jobs.

That was 20 years ago, some things have not recovered, yet the mine is up and running again. And, it is stronger and more viable than it would have been if the original players were bailed out by the government.

my point is. In order to have a chance at a strong and competitive industry in the future, it has to take a black eye for the screw ups that it has done.

lessons need to be learned.

It was doing good untill Fording coal bought the mines out,before that they brought in a manager from Alberta that didnt mind getting dirty and he was very respected by the employees,he didnt play any games and laid it out what had to be done to survive,the employees made lot's of sacrifices to make the place work.

Then Fording bought it and were the worse thing to happen to the industry since the ontario teachers fund bought it and raped the coal for their members profits while not giving a shit about all their union brothers who's throats they were cutting.

Those mines were doing fine untill the BC govt subsidized the north East coal project and put them in an unfair competitive situation.That's one reason the govt. should keep their noses out of the market.

[stemmer]

mtbr mtbr:

stemmer stemmer:

So you agree (based on your chart) domestics are quite reliable and as good as most imports (Mercury, Cadillac, Buick, Lincoln) all have better ratings then Honda...

4 of the 10 are domestics (Mercury, Cadillac, Lincoln, Buick)
4 are Japanese (Lexus, Toyota, Acura, Honda)
2 are European (BMW, Jaguar*)

* Jag - Do you count that as domestic as at the time it was part of Ford or Europe tally... I also realize they were sold a few months back...

nope I wouldn't buy a Merc even if I could..what the hell do they make anyways?

Buick...old man car my fatherinlaw has a an Allure...it's not very alluring

Cadillac or Lincoln..starting price 40 grand no thanks..to get the same quality of a 20 grand Toyota

I'll just stop at the Lexus dealer and get BETTER quality for less

http://www.lexus.ca/lexus/experience/en ... &year=2009

Buick an old man's car? I guess you've never seen a Buick GSX with a 455 or a Buick Gran National V6 turbo....

[mtbr]

stemmer stemmer:

mtbr mtbr:

stemmer stemmer:

So you agree (based on your chart) domestics are quite reliable and as good as most imports (Mercury, Cadillac, Buick, Lincoln) all have better ratings then Honda...

4 of the 10 are domestics (Mercury, Cadillac, Lincoln, Buick)
4 are Japanese (Lexus, Toyota, Acura, Honda)
2 are European (BMW, Jaguar*)

* Jag - Do you count that as domestic as at the time it was part of Ford or Europe tally... I also realize they were sold a few months back...

nope I wouldn't buy a Merc even if I could..what the hell do they make anyways?

Buick...old man car my fatherinlaw has a an Allure...it's not very alluring

Cadillac or Lincoln..starting price 40 grand no thanks..to get the same quality of a 20 grand Toyota

I'll just stop at the Lexus dealer and get BETTER quality for less

http://www.lexus.ca/lexus/experience/en ... &year=2009

Buick an old man's car? I guess you've never seen a Buick GSX with a 455 or a Buick Gran National V6 turbo....

can I buy one of those off a lot today? ..nope

time to get out of the past and move into the present.


BTW the reason my fatherinlaw drives a Buick...he bought it when it was a year old the depreciated value was unbelievable

[danimal]

Chrysler? Never heard of them!

[poquas]

Stemmer. What are you going to do when the big three are forced to shut down for incompetence? Bitch and moan about the "good old days"?

The money they want only delays the inevitable. They’re offering to cut substantial numbers of jobs. Mothball plants. Cut back on remaining employee benefits.

All the while producing the same inferior crap they’ve produced over decades.

Are you really gonna miss these guys?

[stemmer]

Probably the same thing as you blokes when Toyota gets shut down for human trafficking...

[Akhenaten]

I'm amazed that it took 12 pages to establish the common knowledge that Toyotas are head and shoulders more reliable than GMC/Chevy.

Absolutely everyone knows this.






Everyone.
Akh

[stemmer]

You're looking through this thread with rose colored glasses IF you really believe that....

[mtbr]

Akhenaten Akhenaten:

I'm amazed that it took 12 pages to establish the common knowledge that Toyotas are head and shoulders more reliable than GMC/Chevy.

Absolutely everyone knows this.
Everyone.
Akh

everybody knew that from page 1....including Stemmer

[Akhenaten]

While we're at it 'everybody knows' Ford is the most reliable out of the big 3. Even the dealer will admit this under pressure on the lot but then will go on to spin a yarn about after sale service being better.





Just sayin'. No offense stemmer.
Akh

[Caelon]

Stemmer,

I almost hate to do this to you, but you might want to consider the April 2009 edition of Consumer Reports. Remember the compile their statistics by polling thousands of consumers regarding reliability of each model. The ratings are not based on a sinlge car provided by the manufacturer. Some brands like Ford have some good models, but they also have some very bad models that bring the average of the brand down.

The most reliable brands from best to worst are

Scion
Acura
Honda
Toyota
Lexus
Infiniti
Subuaru
Hyundai
Kia
Lincoln (most rleiable American brand in 9th place)
Mazda
Mini
Nissan
Mercury
Volvo
Ford (notice top 3 American brands all belong to Ford)
Buik (First GM brand is 16th)
Porsche
BMW
Suzuki
Audi
Saab
Chevrolet
Volkswagon
GMC
Mercedes
Jeep
Pontiac
Dodge
Cadilac
Chrysler
Saturn
Land Rover

Now when you combine the brands under the automaker and plot the average test scores for automakers.

Honda 78
Subaru 75
Toyota 74
Mazda 73
Mercedes 72
Nissan 72
etc
etc
Ford 63
Suzuki 60
General Motors 57
Chrysler 48

Oh and that Corvette you really like, although it rates well in performance, has a predicted reliability of Much Worse Than Average. You may decide the shop time and expense is worth the fun factor when you are behind the wheel. Or you may decide that the Better Than Average Porsche Boxster would generate more total smiles due to less shop time.