[Tricks]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Tricks Tricks:

I think you over estimate how much teachers actually do. These days parents are having to teach their kids more cause teachers aren't up to snuff

You're a young guy and I suspect your opinion on that will change some when you grow up. I don't think, I KNOW that you vastly underestimate how much teachers actually do. And if anything, teachers these says are having to do MORE because parents aren't up to snuff, not the other way around.

So what you're saying is that even though I have two teachers in the family who actively try to do as little as possible, I underestimate. Or that I have had roommates go through teachers college and say what a joke it is, I underestimate. Or I have several friends go through and finish and all comment on how easy it all is. So are those teachers vastly underestimating how much teachers actually do?

[Tricks]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Tricks Tricks:

Oh I get it, if someone is young, they're wrong. That's cool. Sound just like a teacher too. Nice ageism.

Know your place, junior.

STUFF IT OLD MAN!

[ShepherdsDog]

$1:

Can't have it both ways there chief.

Yes you can. Parents and teachers are both huge influences on a childs life(they can be positive or negative influences based on the individual), just like friends, coaches and other people(grandparents, aunts, uncles and cousins) also play significant roles in shaping a childs life.

[Tricks]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Who said anything about emotional attachment?

Girlfriend = emotional attachment. How many significant others will point out the flaws of the other's profession? Single ones.

$1:

If you think you know more about teachers from your experiences as a teenager than I've learned from listening to teachers, then I'm the one calling bullshit here.

So you're operating under the assumption I've had no contact with teachers.

$1:

I never said you were wrong because you're young. I said I suspected your perspective would change as you become older and, hopefully, wiser. Let go your anger, young Padawan.

Implying age automatically equal wisdom and someone young can't have the wisdom to form a valid opinion.

Nice ageism again. I joined this forum 7 years ago, when I was 15. I took a lot of shit for my age. I didn't put up with it then and I'm not going to now.

[Brenda]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

$1:

Can't have it both ways there chief.

Yes you can. Parents and teachers are both huge influences on a childs life(they can be positive or negative influences based on the individual), just like friends, coaches and other people(grandparents, aunts, uncles and cousins) also play significant roles in shaping a childs life.

I totally agree with that.

[Lemmy]

Tricks Tricks:

So when the teacher is saying how important they are, they're like the Jesus of raising children. Until something fucks up, then it's the parents fault? Which is it? Is a teacher a major influence on a child's life or not? Can't have it both ways there chief.

I made no claims about the size of influence made on a child's life by a teacher. I would suggest that, for most of us, of the many teachers we've had, there were likely a couple that made a significant influence. I would say that only in very rare circumstances (such as described by Shep above) would a single teacher have an impact any where near on par with the impact made on a child by a parent. I'm still not getting what you're disagreeing with me about.

[ShepherdsDog]

$1:

Implying age automatically equal wisdom and someone young can't have the wisdom to form a valid opinion.

Experience imparts wisdom. One day, if you make it through the hoops to become a constable, you'll find that you'll have problems if you try and tell the senior officers you know everything they do.

[Tricks]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

Yes you can. Parents and teachers are both huge influences on a childs life, just like friends, coaches and other people(grandparents, aunts, uncles and cousins) also play significant roles in shaping a childs life.

Absolutely, I agree. But if a kid ends up as a massive screw up is it too much to also look at the education system he was apart of as well as his family life? If they're partially responsible for raising our youth, should they also not be partially responsible for the shortcomings of said youth?

Take Lemmy's assertion that teens are more disrespectful now than 20 years ago. Why is that? Is it because they are spoiled by parents? Maybe. Is it because they don't see respect coming their way from teachers, so they don't give it back? Could be that too. More likely a combination of both.

[Tricks]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Tricks Tricks:

So when the teacher is saying how important they are, they're like the Jesus of raising children. Until something fucks up, then it's the parents fault? Which is it? Is a teacher a major influence on a child's life or not? Can't have it both ways there chief.

I made no claims about the size of influence made on a child's life by a teacher. I would suggest that, for most of us, of the many teachers we've had, there were likely a couple that made a significant influence. I would say that only in very rare circumstances (such as described by Shep above) would a single teacher have an impact any where near on par with the impact made on a child by a parent. I'm still not getting what you're disagreeing with me about.

So teacher's aren't a significant influence on the raising of children, if I'm reading that right.

[Tricks]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

$1:

Implying age automatically equal wisdom and someone young can't have the wisdom to form a valid opinion.

Experience imparts wisdom. One day, if you make it through the hoops to become a constable, you'll find that you'll have problems if you try and tell the senior officers you know everything they do.

Absolutely, but this isn't a job is it? Are we not here to hold discussion? Does discussion not break down when you tell someone their opinion isn't valid because of some number? I don't tell my supervisors now that I know more because I don't. Why would that suddenly change?

[ShepherdsDog]

There is also the fact that good parents(teachers too) can have bad kids, and their peer groups often assert a stronger influence on their life than teachers or parents do. there is a whole nest of mitigating factors that are going to determine if a shild is going to fail or succeed in life.

Out of a class of 25 students, if one stident turns out to be a Robert Pickton and in another classs we have one student who cures life, do you blame or praise their Grade ( ) teacher?

[Lemmy]

Tricks Tricks:

So what you're saying is that even though I have two teachers in the family who actively try to do as little as possible, I underestimate. Or that I have had roommates go through teachers college and say what a joke it is, I underestimate. Or I have several friends go through and finish and all comment on how easy it all is. So are those teachers vastly underestimating how much teachers actually do?

It sounds to me like you're biased by your experience. I, on the other hand, have the perspective of an objective, third-party researcher. And you're right, teacher education programs are a joke. The training program doesn't have any impact on the realities of the job. You think police college teaches cadets anything about being a good cop?

And jam that "ageism" accusation. Everyone my age wishes we knew as much as we thought we did when we were your age. That's life, son.

Tricks Tricks:

So teacher's aren't a significant influence on the raising of children, if I'm reading that right.

Are we talking about academics or larger aspects of raising children? I would suggest that education is an important aspect of a child's life, but only one of many. Would an individual teacher be a "significant influence" on the raising of a child? Likely not, except in rare circumstances. But the cumulative value of a quality education is certainly significant, though also not close to being on-par with the influence of a parent, in most circumstances.

[Tricks]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

There is also the fact that good parents(teachers too) can have bad kids, and their peer groups often assert a stronger influence on their life than teachers or parents do. there is a whole nest of mitigating factors that are going to determine if a shild is going to fail or succeed in life.

Out of a class of 25 students, if one stident turns out to be a Robert Pickton and in another classs we have one student who cures life, do you blame or praise their Grade ( ) teacher?

Neither, it's random chance. Something like that comes down to Nature vs Nurture. Einstein was pretty clearly a genius by the age of 10, I doubt parent or teacher had much to do with that. Just like how Dahmer led a normal childhood life, he was just born batshit crazy.

However I think looking at the general opinion of students (and yes I see the danger of this) is a better measure. My grade 11 auto teacher would get top marks, cause he taught us well, didn't take any shit, but was also a really nice guy and always willing to help. My brother and sister's high school math teacher on the other hand active tried to fail students, marked answers on tests that were right, wrong, and was eventually canned. How well liked do you think she was?

[Brenda]

$1:

But the cumulative value of a quality education is certainly significant, though also not close to being on-par with the influence of a parent, in most circumstances.

Which is the complete opposite of what BeaverFever tried to make us believe.

[ShepherdsDog]

Tricks Tricks:

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

$1:

Implying age automatically equal wisdom and someone young can't have the wisdom to form a valid opinion.

Experience imparts wisdom. One day, if you make it through the hoops to become a constable, you'll find that you'll have problems if you try and tell the senior officers you know everything they do.

Absolutely, but this isn't a job is it? Are we not here to hold discussion? Does discussion not break down when you tell someone their opinion isn't valid because of some number? I don't tell my supervisors now that I know more because I don't. Why would that suddenly change?

Well from your previous posts about teachers, you've clearly demonstrated a bias about the entire teaching profession based on your limited personal experiences....and yes they are an extremely limited number of contacts. Everyone has had shitty teachers and there are always going to be those who become teachers because of the 'holidays', although most of them can't handle the teaching they have to do during the rest of the year, and usually quit.